This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
So. For the weekend in Hungary on Friday they promise +31 degrees Celsius , on Saturday +34, on Sunday +37 degrees. There will be heat. Who has any thoughts on this? Will everyone go to hard? Shoot Aston? Will McLaren fail?
Its certainly going to be interesting, especially to observe if McL can carry over their significant progress from last two races.
Tyres of more resistant structure SHOULD give more protection from overheating the whole tyre in the way it accumilates temperature, track temp likely seen more in compound choice they run.
Quick laps showing ultimate pace, but notice the teams all watch very closely the long run pace as that gives true indication of chassis potential.
Teams really have to be acutely on the ball to respond in setup to maximise long run pace and avoid tragic degradation effect that'll see them go backwards. All the wheel's angles etc have to be right on point to get into the sweet zone of tyre performance.
This iteration of McL appears to be giving competitive load to get the various compound working effectively, the period at end of Silverstone with slower warmup of hard while holding off overtakes, then to see pace rise as full temp arrived, that looked quite promising.
It showed signs of entering the Goldilocks paradigm of chassis tyre performance.
A big test here nevertheless, and likely to give a very good view of updates in a wider condition sense to better judge overall effectiveness.
Very interesting weekend ahead.
Well noted. Even when writing the weather forecast, I wanted to ask this: was the design updated on all tires from C1 to C5 or only on hard types? If at all, it will serve McLaren well.
Remember the tyre's construction changed towards giving more durability at Silverstone.
Light users AM may have effectively been at loss as they had good lifing before, with McL needing more durability in the tyre may have seen more favourable outcome, needing that extra durability to assist race pace longevity.
Pirelli don't say what is altered, as far as I know. Without changes to the compounds that would ordinarily be raised strength in the carcass to better resist heat building through that structure being flexed.
If the tyres weren't altered for Silverstone the normal direction would be to increase base pressure to reduce flex and likely hood of failure through overheating.
Strengthened casing but not increase in base pressure would have similar outcome, but interact with the chassis differently.
It looks like some went forward while others may have lost a little pace.
Mclaren in particular struggled with the manner in which the tyre deformed and affected the performance of the car, this was in part attributed to the long corners. With Stella explaining that their wind tunnel was not able to test this type of airflow. It is entirely possible that this is now better as a result of the structure of the tyre but..... wait for it...
We need more data and we need to wait and see.... lol
There is a lot that is different and too much that we don't know yet.
I wonder, speaking more with regards to the '24 car, will the new wind tunnel that's being rolled out/just come online help with this. Do we know any details on any specific technology improvements with the new one as compared to the Toyota facility they use?
Yes he specifically talked about the new tunnels ability to handle the tyre deformation better as well as the yaw of the car, two things that they couldn't previously test in the tunnel. I'm not sure what else is different in terms of what we could and couldn't test. I'm sure it is top of the line so I'd imagine the data coming out of it might be more powerful, as well as the fact it is On-Prem, so no more delays waiting for parts to go to Cologne and waiting for our slot in the Tunnel Allocation.
I can't see an article readily but this thread in here did pop up around tyre deformation, perhaps it is a non issue by now and they have figured it out? I don't know.
I would assume the impact of the deformation is at least twofold, in that it changes the way the wake feeds off from the tyre, but if it deforming it will be masking a little bit of the feel of the road as it does so.
Not sure if that is totally correct but it feels like it might be right.
All the tyres deform under loadings, that's nothing new.
What Mclaren are saying is the new front not only deforms differently from last years tyre. It also deforms differently from what should be expected in the models they were given (i.e, they don't believe the Pirelli models are accurate)
Now you'd normally take that with a pinch of salt given the tyre manufacturer should know that - however, one we're talking about Pirelli
Two - this wouldn't be the first time they've got it wrong with either shape or deformation data. We had the entire grid complaining about it before once or twice, and running styrofoam blocks rubbing the sidewalls to try get imprints to alter their models and brake ducts with (we might see that in testing again I guess).
If that's the case you're probably going to see some rapid iteration on the front brake ducts and small tweaks on the outboard of the wing until they're happy.
The issue of the new front tyre construction could prove to have major longer term implications to the pecking order of teams. While it is clear that McLaren has experienced a very clear lift in performance from the first two stages of its new concept, the amount of gain is extraordinary and maybe flattered by the new Pirelli fronts. History has shown that when new tyres are introduced mid-season the order usually gets shaken up. I think it’s more than likely McLaren has two types of performance gain (explained above) that will carry through to other circuits even if not quite to the same degree.
A third factor is having a “number two” who comes up to speed with the team leader starting to share data more representative to optimal setups. This team pulling together is helped by drivers who aren’t causing ego issues as well, no dig at Ricci intended. Oscar I have watched closely and his attitude is so mature and intelligent that we forget he’s only been in F1 for 10 rounds. He looks easily a top half driver or better, we really are blessed with a situation looking as strong as the best Carlos and Lando days the way everyone is now performing.
Lionheart posted - “Well noted. Even when writing the weather forecast, I wanted to ask this: was the design updated on all tires from C1 to C5 or only on hard types? If at all, it will serve McLaren well.”
Pirelli were forced into a safety measure brought about by the big gain in performance of the teams in 2023 and Silverstone and several subsequent races providing a bigger risk of tyre failure. So I think it’s assumed that all five compounds will be based on the new front construction. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pire ... 68329/amp/
Lionheart posted - “Well noted. Even when writing the weather forecast, I wanted to ask this: was the design updated on all tires from C1 to C5 or only on hard types? If at all, it will serve McLaren well.”
Pirelli were forced into a safety measure brought about by the big gain in performance of the teams in 2023 and Silverstone and several subsequent races providing a bigger risk of tyre failure. So I think it’s assumed that all five compounds will be based on the new front construction. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pire ... 68329/amp/
Yes, a good question from Lionheart, to which I couldn't put a definitive answer
They don't disclose much from tyre testing etc, making it a little difficult for observers to draw accurate conclusion.
But logically the load index performance, the ability of the structural element minus tread gauge, to carry a specified load should be the same for all tyre as ultimate load of vehicle+downfirce+lateral distortion through cornering is going to be the same/close demand whichever tyre is running.
It may actually run slightly counter to logic with the softest compound able to exercise more lateral, acceleration and deceleration loads into the carcass through enhanced grip of track surface.
Without accurate indication, think it's safe to make assumption that all the casing are the same specs.
Alteration to front wing during pitstop, from tyre compound would seem to take account of the scrub (amount the tyre will slide on track surface) and focus on not shifting chassis balance for driver as he would experience if left alone.
So. For the weekend in Hungary on Friday they promise +31 degrees Celsius , on Saturday +34, on Sunday +37 degrees. There will be heat. Who has any thoughts on this? Will everyone go to hard? Shoot Aston? Will McLaren fail?
I would suggest using this page - https://www.idokep.hu/idojaras/Budapest / seems like Accuweather has kinda the same forecast - if you want a somewhat correct weather forecast. Currently, there is a big heatwave that goes a bit away but still, it will be 30+ degrees during the weekend.
Also, you can expect short but heavy showers "every" afternoon.
From all the bad luck we had in the first half of the season everything is playing to our advantage.Even the weather.Even the new tyre construction.Now we have sort out the RW pylon and the DRS by Spa and Monza. I am joking but hopefully we are 8n the right track with the updates
From all the bad luck we had in the first half of the season everything is playing to our advantage.Even the weather.Even the new tyre construction.Now we have sort out the RW pylon and the DRS by Spa and Monza. I am joking but hopefully we are 8n the right track with the updates
Well this is all we know about Hungary’s upgrade…
“Speaking about the plans, team principal Andrea Stella said “For Hungary, we have some further updates that will help more from the point of view of trying to improve the race pace. These will be available to both drivers. ” https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... /10494943/
I guess that could be RW/DRS related, but could also be something aimed at extending tyre life, possibly something Mechanical rather than Aero
There’s not a great deal left to update, after all
Stella stated that every Aero surface had been updated in this upgrade, so now, given this is the last upgrade package of this particular set of changes it should be relatively easy to work out by looking at the FIA Upgrade Documents in Aust/Silv tosee what has not yet been updated, if somebody wants that fun job, please be my guest!
Predicted late afternoon/evening rain each day may wash the circuit creating slippery conditions each day. The very conditions that Stella said were disadvantageous to the (pre updated) MCL60. Hungary will be a stern test of the effectiveness of the updates. Meanwhile George Russell firmly believes McLaren will continue to be in the mix and the Silverstone result was not an outlier. https://www.racefans.net/2023/07/18/rac ... p-18-07-6/
I have some questions and food for thought. The team brought a modified rear wing to Canada, which was used a couple of times last year. What are the differences in specifications? And if I remember correctly, the DRS system has undergone refinement. In Hungary, the rear wing "from Monaco" will be used. So, will it also have to bring a redesigned DRS system to it?
I also watched the onboard race of Max, Lando, Oscar, Lewis, George, Fernando, Sergio and Charles, and here we can highlight a qualitative observation in terms of driving, chassis balance and other points, such as the radio exchange between the race engineer and the driver: the most problematic turn is number 3 and 4, they are also the slowest. Max, Lando, Oscar, and possibly George experienced less balance problems. On laps 26-27, Lando had a sharp understeer at one time, after which he corrected the speed of entering turn 3 and did not experience any more problems with the balance. Charles had the most problems in Turn 3. In some cases it was entry understeer, in others it was oversteer. It was even difficult for me to understand whether it was connected somehow with tire wear or there was more influence of the wind. Also, Charles was the only one of the above who experienced severe understeer at the exit of the Becketts and the entrance to the Chapel. Also, the exit from the turn Club for Charles was often obtained with oversteer. In principle, this can be attributed to everyone, but in his case, either slipping interfered, or a lack of downforce, or maybe all together. On the Aston, if I remember correctly, the slight understeer in 3 turns was stable and consistent. I never understood why he was wasting so much time with the leaders. The car looks stable, but there was no racing pace. I thought our McLaren drivers would fight the car and was surprised not to find it. If we take the race as a whole, the car was very stable, good grip in and out of corners, and there is some steering correction, but this applies even to the Red Bull Max, so here you can say parity. Just as impressive is how Oscar threw the car at Maggots and Becketts at full speed, sharply turning the steering wheel, and the chassis obediently obeyed the driver's request and did not go beyond the racing trajectory. No understeer from McLaren is found here. Mercedes also looked generally good and stable. Nervous taxiing was not found. Here, in terms of driving, Perez stands out. And the point here is not at all in the racing trajectory, but in how he uses gears on long straights, unlike Max. It is also the fact that it was race engineer Sergio who every lap gave recommendations on changing certain modes, other pilots did not find such a frequency of communication on changing modes. Max used 7th gear for most of the race on the Wellington Straight and as well as the Hangar Straight, while Sergio used 8th gear for most of the race there, even when driving on a free track without DRS. The same goes for the straight after the Stowe corner: Max cranked the engine in 6th gear, and Sergio, like everyone else, switched to 7th gear. With regards to passing the Copse corner, 7th gear was most often used at the beginning and middle of the race, but George also resorted to 7th gear more often towards the end of the race. I don't remember about Max, but for McLaren, they started running in 8th gear from about the middle of the race until the end of the race.
In a totally different subject. Horner blames Tom Stallard for Ricciardo pitfalls. I really love Daniel but he was not suited for our car .But to have Horner blame for his fall an engineer is really low
Tom Stallard is Oscar engineer and we can see how fast Oscar is progressing in his first year
Well, I guess every 2nd RB driver's struggle should be blamed on the race engineer, in that vein. Oscar always progresses over the course of the weekend, especially on tracks he's never raced on. There might be an initial Ricciardo-like gap at the start, but by qualifying he's right on pace with Lando. I'm not sure you'd get that kind of progress with a bad race engineer.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously.
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.
