2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[chrisc90]

Must be exactly that. Might become a Sainz fan for the rest of the season.

To be fair though, Others have noticed it aswell. the mods, andreas, Me4me.... So there must be something there. Ive seen it early on, just decided to not post about it. Either way, probably a little off topic now but we shall see what happens in the remainder of the season. Sainz is 9 points ahead of Charles at the moment so we shall see how/if that gap closes down or extends over the next races ahead.

[scuderiabrandon]

Must be exactly that. Might become a Sainz fan for the rest of the season.

To be fair though, Others have noticed it aswell. the mods, andreas, Me4me.... So there must be something there. Ive seen it early on, just decided to not post about it. Either way, probably a little off topic now but we shall see what happens in the remainder of the season. Sainz is 9 points ahead of Charles at the moment so we shall see how/if that gap closes down or extends over the next races ahead.

I'd advise you to go back to the origin of the Vanja-Andreas situation and see where it stems from. Discalimer, you should go really far back

[chrisc90]

Must be exactly that. Might become a Sainz fan for the rest of the season.

To be fair though, Others have noticed it aswell. the mods, andreas, Me4me.... So there must be something there. Ive seen it early on, just decided to not post about it. Either way, probably a little off topic now but we shall see what happens in the remainder of the season. Sainz is 9 points ahead of Charles at the moment so we shall see how/if that gap closes down or extends over the next races ahead.

I'd advise you to go back to the origin of the Vanja-Andreas situation and see where it stems from. Discalimer, you should go really far back

Goes back further than the posts when Andreas brought it up. Look back to page 191.

I mean its summed up perfectly in the last paragraph on this post: viewtopic.php?p=1104074#p1104074

[Vanja #66]

I mean its summed up perfectly in the last paragraph on this post: viewtopic.php?p=1104074#p1104074

That was a season summary post where I gave some room for discussing on Leclerc's performance and where he could have gone better other than France, since I honestly didn't see any other fault in a race from him. You'll notice all the qualyfing errors by him are dully noted in the table, ie the final Q lap in Silverstone when he was 4-5 tenths up on Sainz's best lap until the spin in Stowe I believe...

[CMSMJ1]

As a mod - guys - bickering is bloody tedious. Play the ball, not the person. Some decent points being made and it doesn't need to be point scoring against your peers on this place.

Thanks @Vanja for the response last page - as a user, not as a moderation team - it is good to have sensible conversation ref the worst Ferrari driver in 25 years?
To be fair to Ferrari, for several of those years they have had some unbalanced teams

Alesi and Berger
Schumi and Irvine
Schumi and Barrichello
Schumi and Massa
Raikkonen and Massa
Massa/Badoer/Fisi and Alonso
Alonso and Kimi
Kimi and Vettel
Vettel and Charles
Charles and Carlos

Is that right? missed anyone? I'd suggest Carlos, for his 2 years in the job has done a decent job against Charles who we all agree is the better driver? (right, is anyone saying that all else being equal that Carlos is going to beat Charles?)
My opinion is that when the no1 seat is driven by the best driver and the team can pull together with it then Ferrari can deliver - if there is too much balance, as there is today, then the team cannot deliver 2x winning cars.

The issues really are that Ferrari cannot get their business together. A significant waste of talented driving skills in these seats.

[Andres125sx]

Opinion: Ferrari will lose both Lecrerc, because they will not provide a title contender car to him, but also Sainz for this unfair behaviour with him, despite he´s always been a true team player with Ferrari, and any other team


Basically Ferrari continue his tendency to ruin every single department, if some is working nice, Ferrari will manage to make it explode in no time

Why should Ferrari be desparate to keep Sainz, the driver with worst results since Jean Alesi?

First, none said Ferrari should be desperate to keep Sainz, so please, do not use a strawman falacy


Second, worst results since Jean Alesi? No need to go as far as Alesi, just the driver who Sainz replaced, the season before Sainz joined Ferrari, scored only a fifth of the points Sainz did score in his very first season in red, wich was the season with less points for him till now, but even so he scored x5 the points Vettel scored in 2020

2020 WDC:
13 Sebastian Vettel GER FERRARI 33

2021 WDC:
5 Carlos Sainz ESP FERRARI 164.5

2022 WDC
5 Carlos Sainz ESP FERRARI 246

2023 WDC (12 GPs remaining):
5 Carlos Sainz ESP FERRARI 83


That´s just an example btw, there are a lot of drivers who did it much worse than Sainz in Ferrari, apart from Vettel, Raikonnen some season, Massa several seasons, Barrichello... the list is long


<Personal stuff deleted>

[Xyz22]

So Vasseur released a long interview to Motorsport italy.

He specifically said that strong diagonal wind is a huge issue with the car and one of the reason why they were slow in Silverstone.

[JPower]

Must be exactly that. Might become a Sainz fan for the rest of the season.

To be fair though, Others have noticed it aswell. the mods, andreas, Me4me.... So there must be something there. Ive seen it early on, just decided to not post about it. Either way, probably a little off topic now but we shall see what happens in the remainder of the season. Sainz is 9 points ahead of Charles at the moment so we shall see how/if that gap closes down or extends over the next races ahead.

It's been very obvious. The overall discourse was not like this when I joined.

[arees83]

Does anyone know if Ferrari has a shaker rig?
How many teams outside of redbull have one? Does anyone think this may be a component of redbulls advantage?

[Juzh]

Does anyone know if Ferrari has a shaker rig?
How many teams outside of redbull have one? Does anyone think this may be a component of redbulls advantage?

Mercedes has it, it was shown in one of their youtube videos some time ago.

[AR3-GP]

Does anyone know if Ferrari has a shaker rig?
How many teams outside of redbull have one? Does anyone think this may be a component of redbulls advantage?

Mercedes has it, it was shown in one of their youtube videos some time ago.

It's called a "Virtual Test Track" or "VTT". A complete shaker rig with an engine dyno built in to load the engine and simulate a lap of any circuit. Alpine, Ferrari, RB, and Mercedes have them.

[F1NAC]

Weren’t there a video that some user posted from 499P videos? There it was visible

[Sevach]

Does anyone know if Ferrari has a shaker rig?
How many teams outside of redbull have one? Does anyone think this may be a component of redbulls advantage?

Mercedes has it, it was shown in one of their youtube videos some time ago.

If teams are openly displaying it off it (usually)means it's nothing new for the top teams.

[Vanja #66]

Thanks @Vanja for the response last page - as a user, not as a moderation team - it is good to have sensible conversation ref the worst Ferrari driver in 25 years?
To be fair to Ferrari, for several of those years they have had some unbalanced teams

Alesi and Berger
Schumi and Irvine
Schumi and Barrichello
Schumi and Massa
Raikkonen and Massa
Massa/Badoer/Fisi and Alonso
Alonso and Kimi
Kimi and Vettel
Vettel and Charles
Charles and Carlos

Is that right? missed anyone? I'd suggest Carlos, for his 2 years in the job has done a decent job against Charles who we all agree is the better driver? (right, is anyone saying that all else being equal that Carlos is going to beat Charles?)
My opinion is that when the no1 seat is driven by the best driver and the team can pull together with it then Ferrari can deliver - if there is too much balance, as there is today, then the team cannot deliver 2x winning cars.

At this point, I believe everyone would agree that neither driver can be compared to Barrichello simply because of his 11 victories in F1, while Massa was even a Champion for 20 seconds. With that in mind, Irvine finished 2nd in 1999 and has 4 victories in total so Leclerc is ahead of him, while Sainz with his single victory can be compared only to Alesi right now.

The issues really are that Ferrari cannot get their business together. A significant waste of talented driving skills in these seats.

Yes, this is well known and understood, unfortunately for Tifosi.

[CMSMJ1]

Thanks @Vanja for the response last page - as a user, not as a moderation team - it is good to have sensible conversation ref the worst Ferrari driver in 25 years?
To be fair to Ferrari, for several of those years they have had some unbalanced teams

Alesi and Berger
Schumi and Irvine
Schumi and Barrichello
Schumi and Massa
Raikkonen and Massa
Massa/Badoer/Fisi and Alonso
Alonso and Kimi
Kimi and Vettel
Vettel and Charles
Charles and Carlos

Is that right? missed anyone? I'd suggest Carlos, for his 2 years in the job has done a decent job against Charles who we all agree is the better driver? (right, is anyone saying that all else being equal that Carlos is going to beat Charles?)
My opinion is that when the no1 seat is driven by the best driver and the team can pull together with it then Ferrari can deliver - if there is too much balance, as there is today, then the team cannot deliver 2x winning cars.

At this point, I believe everyone would agree that neither driver can be compared to Barrichello simply because of his 11 victories in F1, while Massa was even a Champion for 20 seconds. With that in mind, Irvine finished 2nd in 1999 and has 4 victories in total so Leclerc is ahead of him, while Sainz with his single victory can be compared only to Alesi right now.

The issues really are that Ferrari cannot get their business together. A significant waste of talented driving skills in these seats.

Yes, this is well known and understood, unfortunately for Tifosi.

I recognise the achievements of these drivers but I'd counter that they only won, a la Bottas/Perez, due to being in dominant cars and having "gifts" from their teams/team mates. Do you rate Bottas or Perez as a top tier driver?

Barrichello was gifted several races - USA, Italy? 2002/2003? The year that they tried to manage the dead heat. Once the title was won then Rubens was allowed victory. He had some great races though - his first win was superb. His 2003 UK race was also brilliant*

Massa was the best matched with Kimi and I agree he was excellent on his day.

The stats can't tell it all though eh?

What would be the desired Ferrari driver line up from you, Vanja, guys? If you could have a retain a pair of drivers for the next 3 years - who??



*It's interesting to try to remember and thinking back, I had all these races on VHS and used to watch the 2003 UK race a lot - it was the race where HHF gave the superb quote - "they were easy meat" as he was drilling them on superior Bridgestones in his Arrows.