2023 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 21 - 23

[SiLo]

Zero-pods on the Rb isn't going to make them any faster. Mercedes said the sidepods don't matter.

Despite it being impossible in-season to make such a drastic change, it's pretty clear now that sidepods were the least of mercedes issues.

The messaging is all over the place.

Allison says they don't matter: https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-b ... /10488817/

Toto says the RB sidepod cause a significant loss of downforce:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... m=referral

Cutting the sidepod off the RB and gluing it to the Mercedes isn't going to make Mercedes faster (this is the point Allison makes, but it's the layman's low hanging fruit, or the so called "trivial solution" in math). Toto points out in the second link, that when you do this, you lose chunks of downforce. That is correct. The rest of the car is not optimized around the new sidepod.

The more interesting "solution" is the one that shows that a certain sidepod design goes hand in hand with a certain front wing and floor design. This is what is really meant when people point to the zero-pod as the problem. That it points to a conceptual error for the entire vehicle.

As it has been for some time, these cars are finely tuned aerodynamic systems. The sad thing is, it seems it will become more prevalent in this formula that there is a single overarching system that is the best, and the team will converge on it.

In previous Formulas, we saw more divergence and multiple systems working well.

[AR3-GP]

Personally I think that the tyre allocation for qualifying will be bad for ‘the show’ as it kills any chance of an upset in the order (big team/driver gets tyre strategy wrong & is outplayed by lower-mid grid team).

How is the track surface?
What is the weather forecast for the weekend?

The Hard tire also exacerbates the car issues that new softs tended to mask. So it’s likely going to reinforce the normal pecking order.

[Just_a_fan]

Personally I think that the tyre allocation for qualifying will be bad for ‘the show’ as it kills any chance of an upset in the order (big team/driver gets tyre strategy wrong & is outplayed by lower-mid grid team).

How is the track surface?
What is the weather forecast for the weekend?

The Hard tire also exacerbates the car issues that new softs tended to mask. So it’s likely going to reinforce the normal pecking order.

Yes, it means we're unlikely to see an "amazing" result of a back marker getting through to Q2 or even Q1 by using up soft tyres when others are protecting theirs.

[basti313]

Personally I think that the tyre allocation for qualifying will be bad for ‘the show’ as it kills any chance of an upset in the order (big team/driver gets tyre strategy wrong & is outplayed by lower-mid grid team).

How is the track surface?
What is the weather forecast for the weekend?

The Hard tire also exacerbates the car issues that new softs tended to mask. So it’s likely going to reinforce the normal pecking order.

Yes, it means we're unlikely to see an "amazing" result of a back marker getting through to Q2 or even Q1 by using up soft tyres when others are protecting theirs.

I do not think this is the case. The way the cars and drivers work the tires is completely different and not necessarily related to the pecking order.
With the hards mandatory we will see Hulkenberg moving through Q1 easily and Perez struggling. We will maybe see the Mercs struggling and Williams easy in Q2...so I think this may be a nice mix and a very interesting Q1 and Q2.

[Farnborough]

The Hard tire also exacerbates the car issues that new softs tended to mask. So it’s likely going to reinforce the normal pecking order.

Yes, it means we're unlikely to see an "amazing" result of a back marker getting through to Q2 or even Q1 by using up soft tyres when others are protecting theirs.

I do not think this is the case. The way the cars and drivers work the tires is completely different and not necessarily related to the pecking order.
With the hards mandatory we will see Hulkenberg moving through Q1 easily and Perez struggling. We will maybe see the Mercs struggling and Williams easy in Q2...so I think this may be a nice mix and a very interesting Q1 and Q2.

I too feel there's potential for a mix that doesn't run according to our perception.

As example and from SF23 use of hard tyres with certain difficulties, it could shuffle the pack significantly in Q1 on this usage proforma.

It may not lack interest, we may be surprised.

[Just_a_fan]

The Hard tire also exacerbates the car issues that new softs tended to mask. So it’s likely going to reinforce the normal pecking order.

Yes, it means we're unlikely to see an "amazing" result of a back marker getting through to Q2 or even Q1 by using up soft tyres when others are protecting theirs.

I do not think this is the case. The way the cars and drivers work the tires is completely different and not necessarily related to the pecking order.
With the hards mandatory we will see Hulkenberg moving through Q1 easily and Perez struggling. We will maybe see the Mercs struggling and Williams easy in Q2...so I think this may be a nice mix and a very interesting Q1 and Q2.

The teams that need to work to get tyre temp will just do several laps doing just that before putting in a time that gets them through. But no team can roll the dice and take a softer tyre for a glory run in to a Q# they would otherwise not attain.

Having said that, the weather on Saturday is looking to be hot and sunny so track temps will likely be pretty high meaning even those that are gentle on tyres ought to be able to get the hards up to temp in a couple of laps.

[basti313]

Yes, it means we're unlikely to see an "amazing" result of a back marker getting through to Q2 or even Q1 by using up soft tyres when others are protecting theirs.

I do not think this is the case. The way the cars and drivers work the tires is completely different and not necessarily related to the pecking order.
With the hards mandatory we will see Hulkenberg moving through Q1 easily and Perez struggling. We will maybe see the Mercs struggling and Williams easy in Q2...so I think this may be a nice mix and a very interesting Q1 and Q2.

The teams that need to work to get tyre temp will just do several laps doing just that before putting in a time that gets them through. But no team can roll the dice and take a softer tyre for a glory run in to a Q# they would otherwise not attain.

Having said that, the weather on Saturday is looking to be hot and sunny so track temps will likely be pretty high meaning even those that are gentle on tyres ought to be able to get the hards up to temp in a couple of laps.

I agree on the weather. If it is hot, the topic is no topic.

But...can we please stick to reality...how often do we see glory runs with Softs? I somehow fail to see the race where everyone tried to get through Q1 on anything else but Softs? I do not see this argument, it is an exception and super rare if a top driver failed on Mediums in Q1.
Giving everyone a hard tire instead of the 95% Softs in Q is a task one should not underestimate.

[Just_a_fan]

I do not think this is the case. The way the cars and drivers work the tires is completely different and not necessarily related to the pecking order.
With the hards mandatory we will see Hulkenberg moving through Q1 easily and Perez struggling. We will maybe see the Mercs struggling and Williams easy in Q2...so I think this may be a nice mix and a very interesting Q1 and Q2.

The teams that need to work to get tyre temp will just do several laps doing just that before putting in a time that gets them through. But no team can roll the dice and take a softer tyre for a glory run in to a Q# they would otherwise not attain.

Having said that, the weather on Saturday is looking to be hot and sunny so track temps will likely be pretty high meaning even those that are gentle on tyres ought to be able to get the hards up to temp in a couple of laps.

I agree on the weather. If it is hot, the topic is no topic.

But...can we please stick to reality...how often do we see glory runs with Softs? I somehow fail to see the race where everyone tried to get through Q1 on anything else but Softs? I do not see this argument, it is an exception and super rare if a top driver failed on Mediums in Q1.
Giving everyone a hard tire instead of the 95% Softs in Q is a task one should not underestimate.

The argument given is that it cuts down the number of tyres that Pirelli have to ship - from 13 sets per to 11 sets per car. That's fair enough. But why make up a silly allocation rule? Why not just say "The teams will have fewer tyres and must ensure they have sufficient for the various phases of the weekend."?

They're doing it this way because they hope it will throw out some mixed grids. If it does, then it's more contrived nonsense; if it doesn't then it's all just a waste of everyone's time getting their heads around the new rules.

[chrisc90]

The argument given is that it cuts down the number of tyres that Pirelli have to ship - from 13 sets per to 11 sets per car. That's fair enough. But why make up a silly allocation rule? Why not just say "The teams will have fewer tyres and must ensure they have sufficient for the various phases of the weekend."?

They're doing it this way because they hope it will throw out some mixed grids. If it does, then it's more contrived nonsense; if it doesn't then it's all just a waste of everyone's time getting their heads around the new rules.

Exactly. Let’s face it, if tyre usage and transportation was a major issue then they would just say this is the allowance you get, pick from it and whatever tyres you choose you have for the rest of the weekend. None of the mandating which tyre for which qualifying session.
What happens if the best strategy is S-M or not one involving the hard? The team could pick their choice and they wouldn’t need the hard tyre. But they have to run a hard for 4 laps in Q1…. A tyre that might not get touched again.

Give them 10 sets, or 9 or 8… and if they need to run a used tyre from quali in the race then they will have to do that.

[langedweil]

Well, if footprints were really an issue, they would have had a serious look at scheduling races in a proper & logical manner.
But as they didn't, it shows it's just a bit of 'green' virtue signaling combined with stirring up things that needed no stir-up at all .. because "everything for the show!"

It's a sport, not a show ..

[chrisc90]

[cplchanb]

Well, if footprints were really an issue, they would have had a serious look at scheduling races in a proper & logical manner.
But as they didn't, it shows it's just a bit of 'green' virtue signaling combined with stirring up things that needed no stir-up at all .. because "everything for the show!"

It's a sport, not a show ..

Case in point look at next year... miami SPAIN and then back across to CANADA.... WTF are they thinking if they are such preachers of sustainability. hypocrites!

[Just_a_fan]

Well, if footprints were really an issue, they would have had a serious look at scheduling races in a proper & logical manner.
But as they didn't, it shows it's just a bit of 'green' virtue signaling combined with stirring up things that needed no stir-up at all .. because "everything for the show!"

It's a sport, not a show ..

Case in point look at next year... miami SPAIN and then back across to CANADA.... WTF are they thinking if they are such preachers of sustainability. hypocrites!

The very existence of the sport makes everyone involved a hypocrite. Yes, they can run the cars on "green petrol" but that's such a small part of the problem that it's laughable. There's nothing "green" about F1.

[Willy]

Well, if footprints were really an issue, they would have had a serious look at scheduling races in a proper & logical manner.
But as they didn't, it shows it's just a bit of 'green' virtue signaling combined with stirring up things that needed no stir-up at all .. because "everything for the show!"

It's a sport, not a show ..

Case in point look at next year... miami SPAIN and then back across to CANADA.... WTF are they thinking if they are such preachers of sustainability. hypocrites!

The very existence of the sport makes everyone involved a hypocrite. Yes, they can run the cars on "green petrol" but that's such a small part of the problem that it's laughable. There's nothing "green" about F1.

Indeed! From green house gases of manufacturing raw material required to then manufacture car parts to all the discardable packaging parts to travelling across the globe, leaving massive carbon foot print with audience travelling hundreds of miles on fossil fuel to attend these races, there can never be anything green about F1. Needless to say about team principals, owners and drivers traveling in private jets.

[mclaren111]

Well, if footprints were really an issue, they would have had a serious look at scheduling races in a proper & logical manner.
But as they didn't, it shows it's just a bit of 'green' virtue signaling combined with stirring up things that needed no stir-up at all .. because "everything for the show!"

It's a sport, not a show ..

Case in point look at next year... miami SPAIN and then back across to CANADA.... WTF are they thinking if they are such preachers of sustainability. hypocrites!

The very existence of the sport makes everyone involved a hypocrite. Yes, they can run the cars on "green petrol" but that's such a small part of the problem that it's laughable. There's nothing "green" about F1.

Then let's Bring Back V10's...