2022 Tyres Thread

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Mike_s
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Re: 2022 Tyres Thread

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aleks_ader wrote:
10 Mar 2023, 17:58
Collect Marbles? But who knows if it is even worth it. I would imagine marbles are chemically changed tho. I would take scraping from tire surface before hits the track. I know teams drill holes in tires to measure its "depth" of thread surface. So there is source of material for you.

Is it theoretically even possible to reverse engineer compound chemistry from small sample even?
And secondly would that be even beneficial. I would be intrigued how precise could u map compound in lab settings. Afterall tire is not just compound but its whole complex system that act as whole.
The construction of the F1 tyre is a matrix of rubber and polymers forming the tread and sidewalls that are tied together with an underlying structure of steel, nylon, polyester and Kevlar bands.
Those systems interact on each other in all dimensions via varied pressures, surface temps, core temp and side flexes. And to top it off tire patch is constantly changing via suspension setup or varied driver inputs even.

So maybe multiple (controlled as possible) data acquisition of track and testing is still the best IMO :D From that reason i m advocating that active suspension could level playing field even. Because all that knowledge big teams gathered in those tire wars, Pirelli blow-ups with those passive systems are invaluable. Some might even argue most important part of car design.
I did eaxctly this on a marble from the German GP a few years back. you can see the results on another thread (Tyre compound behaviour) in this forum.

Andi76
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Re: Ferrari SF23

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Mike_s wrote:
10 Jul 2023, 18:40
Andi76 wrote:
09 Mar 2023, 21:32
ing. wrote:
08 Mar 2023, 19:30

Are you saying that the rubber compound behaves like metal—applied loads to work harden the compound and heating to temper the compound? I’d be surprised if that’s the case but would be interesting to discover more. Specifically, how do you think this hardening and softening affect thermal degradation and grip?
I made a post last season about contact frequencies and temperatures that hopefully can answear your question:

The mechanism determining a tires actual compound softness when its in action is complex and is only partly to do with the base softness from its ingredients. Tire temperature and the contact frequency(rubbers frequency of contact with the track) are the two other main determiants. These work in opposite directions. As temperature rises the compound becomes softer(you can see this with plasticine). As contact frequencies rises the compound becomes harder. Getting to the point at which the tire achieves its ideal state (vitreous transition) is therefore a delicate balancing act. The higher the contact frequency, the more temperature you need to compensate in order to keep the tire at its intended compound softness. Contact frequency is about how the loads react uppon the rubber. Because rubber is s viscoelastic material, the way it reacts to loads is not consistent. Up to a point the rubber will accept the incoming energy and react against it, trying to spring back in the opposite direction to the load and thereby creating grip. Beyond that point the rubber cannot regain shape quickly enough to absorb the next input of load. This has the effect of stiffening and hardening the compound, breaking the process down and causing the tire to slide. When the compound is overwhelmed in this way its better to get to a harder base compound that will better stand up to the energy fed into it.

This is also the reason why F1 teams usually say - our car works better with the harder tire. Because it is then actually so that when the contact frequencies for the softer tire are too high, the harder tire is comparatively softer for them.

Many people completely underestimate the complexity of this issue and many things play into it. In today's cars, which you want to drive as low as possible on a permanent basis, especially the stiffness of the suspension.

As for hardening and softening in general - you have to know that racing tires are not fully cured. They would otherwise be too hard to have the corresponding performance. In use, the rubber sees mechanical working and time at elevated temperatures very similar to the processes it saw as it was manufactured, in different cycles. What ultimately happens here is nothing other than that the vulcanization process of the tire continues, he gets more cured and becomes harder. This is why the lap times of cars with high degradation also become worse, because the tire practically becomes harder after going through a heat cycle (high temperature in corner, lower temperature on the straight, for example). The so-called ideal operating temperature of a tire is also the temperature at which it does not cure or hardly cures, which in turn is also related to the temperatures during its manufacture and its compound. The described mechanism of hardening(contact frequencies too high) and softening(temperature rise) is also naturally subject to this. As soon as the temperature rises above a certain point (e.g. in a curve) and cools down again (e.g. on a straight line), the tire will become somewhat harder. Working with "more temperature" to make the tire softer only works if it is within the working window of the tire, which is usually 20 to 30 degrees. At higher temperatures, the tire will become harder in this heat cycle and that is ultimately what tire degradation is.
At the risk of blowing my own trumpet, I have done some work on precisely this and posted some of the results in a thread called 'Tyre compound behaviour' in this forum.
the 'stiffness' of the compound changes with temperature and loadng time, as does the visco-elastic nature of the compound.
You might find the info helpful
Mike
Thanks Mike, I will look into it.

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organic
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Re: 2022 Tyres Thread

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So zandvoort will have C1-C3 tyres (like Silverstone Bahrain and Barcelona). The only change from last year is the hard tyre is going to be C1 rather than C0.

Seems unlikely the C0 will get use anywhere now, and probably removed next year

Pirelli have made a great decision to go with softer tyres for Monza!! C3-C5 rather than C2-C4 as last year, so the race might be interesting. Could be a 2-stopper if hot & SC/vsc will play a huge role

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Re: 2022 Tyres Thread

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Tyres selected by pirelli for 3 more rounds:

Singapore C3-C5

Japan C1-C3

Qatar C1-C3

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Re: 2022 Tyres Thread

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They're testing a new C2 compound that better fits between the C1 and C3 at Suzuka.

A new C4 compound will also be tested @ Mexico

KimiRai
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Re: 2022 Tyres Thread

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organic wrote:
19 Sep 2023, 21:24
They're testing a new C2 compound that better fits between the C1 and C3 at Suzuka.

A new C4 compound will also be tested @ Mexico
Theres a 2023 tyres thread.

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Re: 2022 Tyres Thread

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They are bringing the C3-C5 tyres to Vegas. Softest in range for very cold race

Image

AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 Tyres Thread

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The last few minutes of GP qualifying in Brazil were illuminating...
A lion must kill its prey.

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Re: 2022 Tyres Thread

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C0 is gone and no new compounds for '24
#Pirelli confirms the current product so there will be no new compounds in 2024, C0 having been eliminated.
In the collective post-GP tests next Tuesday, two cars will be on track for today's teams, one reserved for the youngsters

AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 Tyres Thread

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Stability is always great.
A lion must kill its prey.

toraabe
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Re: 2022 Tyres Thread

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https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/11/22/sa ... afety-car/

In reply to this, they coud use an old Group C racer ;)


mzso
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Re: 2022 Tyres Thread

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AR3-GP wrote:
22 Nov 2023, 02:21
Stability is always great.
The tires are stably garbage, so I'm not so sur about that.

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Re: 2022 Tyres Thread

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Bahrain, Saudi and Melbourne 2024 tyres

Melbourne a step softer. Other two the same


AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 Tyres Thread

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Bahrain needs softer tires...for reasons...
A lion must kill its prey.

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Juzh
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Re: 2022 Tyres Thread

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mzso wrote:
23 Nov 2023, 14:28
AR3-GP wrote:
22 Nov 2023, 02:21
Stability is always great.
The tires are stably garbage, so I'm not so sur about that.
But at least they're garbage consistently. That's gotta count for something.

To be honest I agree with pirelli's recent comments that current car are producing obscene amounts of downforce and it's a completely uncharted territory compared to what tyre companies had to deal with before pirelli era.
It's not unthinkable some 2023 cars (rb and mclaren) have more outright downforce at 200+ speeds than even 2019/2020 cars. For example Verstappen's 2023 suzuka S section speeds are nearly on Vettel's record 2019 speeds, and we know ground effect cars have much less mechanical grip and more a lot more weight, yet still able to pull off these speeds. I'm almost certain that after 250+ kmh 2023 cars have the most downforce ever (yes more than 2020 merc). Ground effect aero levels increase much more at higher speeds than older wing dominated cars.