2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

Sainz is a very quick driver especially with cars that have a weak front end, which apparently is a Ferrari speciality. These cars though will never be able to win. In fact with the F1 75 in his 1.0 spec (a car capable of winning race) Sainz was nowhere near Leclerc and a had a gap similar to Perez from Max in race trim.

The real issue though is that Sainz is a very "political" driver. This is why i think Ferrari should retain him if they want to get rid of Charles or if he simply won't renew the contract. It doesn't make any sense to keep a driver that has very different needs in terms of balance and always put the team under pressure behind the scenes when you already have Leclerc.

We're a long way from the F1-75 1.0 so I don't know how relevant that is to this conversation. Every driver has cars that they are more comfortable with. Saying they won't be able to win is greatly simplifying the complexities of being quick in F1.

As for the rest, no team pairs drivers on what they prefer in a racecar. They want pace, that's it. Outside of Mercedes and McLaren, I can't really think of two driver pairings on the grid with similar styles. And thinking Leclerc isn't political given his management team is a laughable thought.

I never said Leclerc isn't political. Leclerc / Sainz pair makes very little sense for Ferrari. Do they want to bet on Sainz? That's a good option but they need to get rid of Leclerc in that case.

I don't see the issue of having the two. It's a great pairing. Leclerc asserts his authority on the track. On most days, Sainz will not qualify ahead of Leclerc. Ferrari simply need to stick to the "first driver on the road" strategies, rather than listening to Sainz's cunning plans to jump ahead of Leclerc . The only actual problem here is how Ferrari end up screwing Leclerc because Sainz wants to do a different strategy to beat him. At Mercedes and RB, they never entertained this with Hamilton and Verstappen. If you were ahead, you would not get undermined.

[JPower]

I never said Leclerc isn't political. Leclerc / Sainz pair makes very little sense for Ferrari. Do they want to bet on Sainz? That's a good option but they need to get rid of Leclerc in that case.

Why does it make little sense? They are two strong drivers that given a great car should be able to go toe to toe with any other team on the grid.

Ferrari just makes it more complicated than it needs to be by not letting them race. If Charles is that much quicker, then none of this should matter, he will finish ahead.

[ringo]

Ferrari's job is not easy because Sainz is strong headed and unwilling to concede to a #2 role. It's interesting how things are now because ferrari does better with a clear #2 as we have seen in the past. They are giving Sainz more leverage than the typical "weaker" driver in the team. There were a few times he has held up LeClerc on the road. In the past Ferrari would swap the drivers, but now they seem to maybe play the long game by not killing either driver's morale by resigning them to a secondary role. Maybe they are not sure if either driver is their future and don't want to be overly invested in LeClerc.

But regarding the car, Vaseur has said the obvious, they are not fully utlizing the car and getting the setup right should yeild better results. How much responsibility does Sainz of Charles bear on this front?
Sainz is new to the team, and has only raced with other young drivers. Charles still young and mainly learned from Vettel, if any at all. How good are these guys at developing setup?
I do think that some of the tyre woes lie at the feet of both Charles and Carlos.

[kimmmykim]

The quality of this forum has really gone down the last few weeks with all the back and forth about which of the two drivers is the best. It's been marginally better than Twitter. While there are only a handful contributors to the forum, there are so many more of us that lurk around but for whom this forum is the default place to get news related to what is happening at Ferrari.
Close to all of the last 100 posts have been backs and forths from supporters of each driver's fans trying to paint how their favorite driver is the best or how the other driver is lacking in one way or the other.
It used to be fun opening this forum page. Now you can be almost sure that any new notification for a new post that pops up will be one that seeks to add to the dreary "best ferrari driver" discourse.

Sent from my SM-A307FN using Tapatalk

[JPower]

But regarding the car, Vaseur has said the obvious, they are not fully utlizing the car and getting the setup right should yeild better results. How much responsibility does Sainz of Charles bear on this front?
Sainz is new to the team, and has only raced with other young drivers. Charles still young and mainly learned from Vettel, if any at all. How good are these guys at developing setup?
I do think that some of the tyre woes lie at the feet of both Charles and Carlos.

I seriously doubt that confirming setup is a problem for either of them given the amount of races they've completed in their careers. Leclerc headed in the wrong direction for a few races there but would not hold that against him. Given the SF-23's operating window moves and shakes more than an old VW Beetle convertible, I think they can be forgiven on that front.

[SoulPancake13]

I think a temporary pause on this never ending debate is in order. We all have our opinions on the matter(myself included), but instead of discussing the race weekend ahead we are all arguing over, in my eyes, an overdone topic. Can we talk about the racing team itself now?

[Fakepivot]

Vesser in the one of the latest interviews said how there car is affected by lateral wind, is Ferrari only one suffer from this atm? anyone with technical mind explain how this effects.

[Vanja #66]

Vesser in the one of the latest interviews said how there car is affected by lateral wind, is Ferrari only one suffer from this atm? anyone with technical mind explain how this effects.

All cars suffer when there's wind in corners, some more and some less. Wind influences and degrades the air flow structures which are already strained when the car is cornering. Different aero philosophies of different cars have different effects and we can safely say that the biggest problem in the wind is most likely the floor aero performance for Ferrari. In general, you lose less downforce on wings than you do on the floor in these adverse conditions.

[Andi76]

But regarding the car, Vaseur has said the obvious, they are not fully utlizing the car and getting the setup right should yeild better results. How much responsibility does Sainz of Charles bear on this front?
Sainz is new to the team, and has only raced with other young drivers. Charles still young and mainly learned from Vettel, if any at all. How good are these guys at developing setup?
I do think that some of the tyre woes lie at the feet of both Charles and Carlos.

I seriously doubt that confirming setup is a problem for either of them given the amount of races they've completed in their careers. Leclerc headed in the wrong direction for a few races there but would not hold that against him. Given the SF-23's operating window moves and shakes more than an old VW Beetle convertible, I think they can be forgiven on that front.

The problem is generally more the Pirelli tires themselves. No team is really able to use these tires properly, except Red Bull. I think a lot of fans don't understand that. Ferrari only has a slightly bigger problem than others because they either put too much energy into the tires (which is an advantage in qualifying) or because the contact frequencies are too high. Others put too little energy into the tires which becomes an advantage in the race and have lower contact frequencies. This is all interrelated and many things affect the balance between temperature and contact frequencies (which is only one of many variables) and just a few degrees of temperature can throw everything you need to get the tires to work halfway decent out the window. That's why you often see a car being fast one day and as soon as the temperature changes by 10 degrees the next day they are suddenly 8 places further back.

[JPower]

But regarding the car, Vaseur has said the obvious, they are not fully utlizing the car and getting the setup right should yeild better results. How much responsibility does Sainz of Charles bear on this front?
Sainz is new to the team, and has only raced with other young drivers. Charles still young and mainly learned from Vettel, if any at all. How good are these guys at developing setup?
I do think that some of the tyre woes lie at the feet of both Charles and Carlos.

I seriously doubt that confirming setup is a problem for either of them given the amount of races they've completed in their careers. Leclerc headed in the wrong direction for a few races there but would not hold that against him. Given the SF-23's operating window moves and shakes more than an old VW Beetle convertible, I think they can be forgiven on that front.

The problem is generally more the Pirelli tires themselves. No team is really able to use these tires properly, except Red Bull. I think a lot of fans don't understand that. Ferrari only has a slightly bigger problem than others because they either put too much energy into the tires (which is an advantage in qualifying) or because the contact frequencies are too high. Others put too little energy into the tires which becomes an advantage in the race and have lower contact frequencies. This is all interrelated and many things affect the balance between temperature and contact frequencies (which is only one of many variables) and just a few degrees of temperature can throw everything you need to get the tires to work halfway decent out the window. That's why you often see a car being fast one day and as soon as the temperature changes by 10 degrees the next day they are suddenly 8 places further back.

Interesting, I recently read an article with Vasseur kind of hinting at the same thing.

Given they've been used for the past 2 years, any hope that Ferrari can get on top of them this season or next?

[f1316]

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2023 ... heria.html

"Furthermore, according to information gathered by our editorial staff, a new version of rear wing capable of optimizing vertical load at the rear COULD make its debut at the Hungaroring"

Presumably one of the differences since they last ran this rear wing is that Ferrari have since introduced a new *front* wing. So presumably they’ve increased the potential for load at the front and now they can add more load at the rear (when previously that would have upset the balance)?

[Cs98]

[Piergiuseppe Donadoni] EXCLUSIVE: the Ferrari top guy announced by Vasseur is Loic Serra, Mercedes Performance Director. A non-random profile (similar to Wache but not as complete) as it specializes in vehicle dynamics (chassis-mechanics) https://formu1a.uno/esclusiva-ferrari-e ... a-vasseur/

[Z-one]

[Piergiuseppe Donadoni] EXCLUSIVE: the Ferrari top guy announced by Vasseur is Loic Serra, Mercedes Performance Director. A non-random profile (similar to Wache but not as complete) as it specializes in vehicle dynamics (chassis-mechanics) https://formu1a.uno/esclusiva-ferrari-e ... a-vasseur/

problem in Vehicle dynamics may be the largest problem for Ferrari，compared with aero.

[deadhead]

Maybe he can help with the tires, although looking at the current Mercedes I won’t hold my breath.

[AR3-GP]

Maybe he can help with the tires, although looking at the current Mercedes I won’t hold my breath.

Mercedes don't have tire wear issues. They just haven't figured out how to make their car much faster.