2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[f1316]

That was one of the worst of the season on just about every level. Leclerc gained almost a full pit stop on Piastri in the final stint, on harder tyres (which no one else chose - why?), but was scuppered due to slow pit stop, being stuck behind slow Carlos and pit lane speeding (which was obviously his own fault but yet another unforced error).

So Charles is right that the pace was better than it looks but even then we’re talking about max 4th place. Well off the ultimate pace and while they don’t seem to drop off the cliff in race pace any more, they’ve sacrificed quali pace and still seem to have the most wind sensitivity. Basically they no longer have any strong points, only weak ones.

I’m trying to remember a time when I’ve seen them slide backwards so badly (vs the start of 2022) and struggling. I’m usually glass half full but nothing redeeming about this team at the moment.

[LM10]

Seems the tyre change hurt them a lot and it's concerning they don't mention that. Are they even aware of it?

Austria wasn't an off track for other teams, Ferrari was just slightly faster than Merc and McLaren and now bot those cars have seemingly made a jump. Aston Martin is also hurt, but RB isn't - as shown today.

That’s a question I’m asking myself as well. And I’m confused a bit. Wasn’t the tyre change supposed to help Ferrari? I remember to have read reports from the suggesting that the new tyre might be a performance gain for them.

Is it a possibility that the energy Ferrari was putting into the tyres up until their upgrade package was too much for the old tyres, but would have been just right for the new ones with the stronger carcass - and now the upgrades brought (which made the car kinder on tyres) coincided with the arrival of the new tyres and they’re on the other side of things now putting too less energy into them?

[dialtone]

I think they just set the wrong goals performance wise for the season and this is what they got. Car is slower and that’s about it. I don’t buy anymore the ride height during race because the car gets worse as the times go down and theoretically the DF increases. It’s not management either because this is not because of asking for less drag.

Plain and simply many things are off with it and likely they set the wrong goals.

[billamend]

So Binotto was not the problem then?

[Xyz22]

So Binotto was not the problem then?

Binotto is just a mediocre TD and TP. That's it.

Replacing him without doing anything else won't have any meaningful impact.

[Sevach]

So Binotto was not the problem then?

Please, a lot of what is happening now is due to Binotto's handywork, foundations for this season were done by his technical team, under his supervision.

[Alonsismo]

Ferrari sabotaging Sainz again

[Vanja #66]

Seems the tyre change hurt them a lot and it's concerning they don't mention that. Are they even aware of it?

Austria wasn't an off track for other teams, Ferrari was just slightly faster than Merc and McLaren and now bot those cars have seemingly made a jump. Aston Martin is also hurt, but RB isn't - as shown today.

That’s a question I’m asking myself as well. And I’m confused a bit. Wasn’t the tyre change supposed to help Ferrari? I remember to have read reports from the suggesting that the new tyre might be a performance gain for them.

Is it a possibility that the energy Ferrari was putting into the tyres up until their upgrade package was too much for the old tyres, but would have been just right for the new ones with the stronger carcass - and now the upgrades brought (which made the car kinder on tyres) coincided with the arrival of the new tyres and they’re on the other side of things now putting too less energy into them?

Most likely, in my view

[Xyz22]

Highly unlikely that this performance is related to the new tyres.

The car has the same performance issues of the first few races.

[Vanja #66]

Highly unlikely that this performance is related to the new tyres.

The car has the same performance issues of the first few races.

Exactly. The car was like it was in Barcelona. Then they had the test were they tried a different setup direction and it worked for 2 races. And now the tyre construction is changed so that setup philosophy is 99.9% out the window. The fact remains they don't seem to be able to adapt the tyre treatment to different conditions.

[Xyz22]

Highly unlikely that this performance is related to the new tyres.

The car has the same performance issues of the first few races.

Exactly. The car was like it was in Barcelona. Then they had the test were they tried a different setup direction and it worked for 2 races. And now the tyre construction is changed so that setup philosophy is 99.9% out the window. The fact remains they don't seem to be able to adapt the tyre treatment to different conditions.

I think Austria and Canada are outliers, Vanja. They are very "unique" tracks where cars that had huge issues DWF wise often performed quite well (look at the SF 90 for instance which was strong in Bahrain, Canada and Austria. Coincidence?).

You could see already in Austria how Lando was quicker in the third sector (where you have a few "standard" corners) despite the dirty air

With the upgrades, they made the car more stable in race trim. They don't have insane deg and huge balance shifts even across the same corner, but they didn't make huge improvement on raw performance.

[scuderiabrandon]

The moral of the story is you can't patch up flawed concepts. The car has inherit issues that aren't going to change mid-season, it is just how it is. I think any one sensible enough would know that and I would hope the engineers realize the mistake they made from last season to now.

[Xyz22]

The moral of the story is you can't patch up flawed concepts. The car has inherit issues that aren't going to change mid-season, it is just how it is. I think any one sensible enough would know that and I would hope the engineers realize the mistake they made from last season to now.

Yeah, of course.

[Afterburner]

The moral of the story is you can't patch up flawed concepts. The car has inherit issues that aren't going to change mid-season, it is just how it is. I think any one sensible enough would know that and I would hope the engineers realize the mistake they made from last season to now.

Tell that to Mclaren...

[hape]

Highly unlikely that this performance is related to the new tyres.

The car has the same performance issues of the first few races.

Exactly. The car was like it was in Barcelona. Then they had the test were they tried a different setup direction and it worked for 2 races. And now the tyre construction is changed so that setup philosophy is 99.9% out the window. The fact remains they don't seem to be able to adapt the tyre treatment to different conditions.

I think Austria and Canada are outliers, Vanja. They are very "unique" tracks where cars that had huge issues DWF wise often performed quite well (look at the SF 90 for instance which was strong in Bahrain, Canada and Austria. Coincidence?).

You could see already in Austria how Lando was quicker in the third sector (where you have a few "standard" corners) despite the dirty air

With the upgrades, they made the car more stable in race trim. They don't have insane deg and huge balance shifts even across the same corner, but they didn't make huge improvement on raw performance.

While I agree on the fact that Canada and Austria are somewhat different, there is just too much going on in performance differences since Silverstone.
No team understood how the soft tyre could suddenly last for half a race distance at Silverstone and likewise the hard tyre wasn't so much slower than predicted compared to the soft.
Red Bull nailed today's race again but when was the last time Verstappen was beaten by a Mercedes in qualifying?
How did an Alfa suddenly out perform both Ferrari on raw pace in qualifying. And while I think McLaren did a great update, they now suddenly are a competitor for Red Bull on certain circuits and on others they still seem to be best of the rest. Ferrari on the other hand seems to be getting worse every time.