2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

Hamilton's last stint on the mediums was crazy. He and Russell had almost equal stints on the mediums with Russell pitting on Lap 46 and Hamilton on the 49th.

This is something we observed last season. Spain. Austria. Hungary from memory.

[pursue_one's]

It’s a lot of work...

“We generally have a bigger wing than some of the others, like the Red Bulls for example, but they seem to have more downforce from their floor,” he said. “We have a lot of work to do. I am like a broken record.

“I’ve just gotta keep telling the guys ‘we need to go in that direction’. I would like to see that either with this year’s car or next year.”

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1031961/1 ... -direction

[Hammerfist]

https://i.redd.it/kevk5fo5gqdb1.png

Car was 2nd fastest for the majority of the race

The poor race start and time lost around pitstop were unfortunate & cost P2. I think the car had the pace to beat Norris and hold off Perez

No the car is not second fastest. At one stint but not over the whole race distance.
The first stint it was cleard 3rd best.
There was no way the first stint could have run well. Lewis would have always lost out at the start.
Remember silverstone after the SC restart?
The Mclarens just have that innate advantage with the tyre warm up.
The woulda coulda shoulda doesnt determine how things would have gone exactly.
Hamilton ahead after lap 1means norris in p3 and piastri p4. Piastri would not have dived down the middle.
Max pushes then overtakes lewis when drs is enabled then its 2 mclarens vs one mercedes.
Mclaren apply pressure to hamilton stopping Norris early then extending piastri. Ham pits early and has to run on the hards and so on...
You can play out the permutations but Hamilton doesnt end up on the podium racing 2 mclarens and perez in the end.

Had Hamilton remained in P2 on lap1 I don't think the Mclaren could overtake him on track because they did not have enough pace advantage. You need about 0.7-0.8sec to overtake on this track I reckon. They were all saving tires in the first stint anyway and waiting for the pit stops. You can say maybe they undercut but considering how big the gaps were, with everyone focused more on cooling than outright pace, undercutting was not really a thing in stint 1. Once Hamilton pitted in stint 1 it was game over. He was too far away to undercut anyone. Why did he pit so early? Were the tires done already? Did not notice any pace dropoff at that point.

[organic]

Surely a new spec floor is due in the next few races?

It hasn't changed since the beginning of the year; other than Merc only Alfa Romeo and Red Bull still have the same floors as their launch spec cars.

[denyall]

Surely a new spec floor is due in the next few races?

It hasn't changed since the beginning of the year; other than Merc only Alfa Romeo and Red Bull still have the same floors as their launch spec cars.

They may have abandoned it after deciding to change the chassis/packaging for next year. I think they went with front and rear wings and possibly front suspension.

[AR3-GP]

Surely a new spec floor is due in the next few races?

It hasn't changed since the beginning of the year; other than Merc only Alfa Romeo and Red Bull still have the same floors as their launch spec cars.

They may have abandoned it after deciding to change the chassis/packaging for next year. I think they went with front and rear wings and possibly front suspension.

It would be surprising if they were preparing for next year, to not even entertain a new floor since we were told by Toto that regs are the same and they can learn from the W14.

[organic]

Surely a new spec floor is due in the next few races?

It hasn't changed since the beginning of the year; other than Merc only Alfa Romeo and Red Bull still have the same floors as their launch spec cars.

They may have abandoned it after deciding to change the chassis/packaging for next year. I think they went with front and rear wings and possibly front suspension.

Makes sense!

OTOH:
Last year they brought a new floor at Barcelona (rushed) and were able to bring a second new spec floor to France, and then still a new front wing at COTA, and RW endplate corners at Brazil.

So far this year they've brought new sidepods, engine cover, front wing and modified RW endplate corners. I'm going to assume a second floor spec will come sometime in the second half of the year based on how many upgrades should be feasible (judging by 2022). Unless sidepods and engine cover are each equivalent in BC/WT allocation to a floor spec each. Personally I'd assume sidepods and engine cover package to be equivalent to 1 new spec floor roughly in terms of development budget

We also should consider that the rules are stable for 23->24 unlike 22->23

[AR3-GP]

It’s a lot of work...

“We generally have a bigger wing than some of the others, like the Red Bulls for example, but they seem to have more downforce from their floor,” he said. “We have a lot of work to do. I am like a broken record.

“I’ve just gotta keep telling the guys ‘we need to go in that direction’. I would like to see that either with this year’s car or next year.”

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1031961/1 ... -direction

I find these remarks from Hamilton to be interesting as it potentially reveals that at this point in time, Merc do not have a RB-like concept in their wind tunnel.

I also can't help but wonder, with the silly season situation...as Hamilton has been asking for a RB all this time... Stranger things have happened.

[Cassius]

Surely a new spec floor is due in the next few races?

It hasn't changed since the beginning of the year; other than Merc only Alfa Romeo and Red Bull still have the same floors as their launch spec cars.

They may have abandoned it after deciding to change the chassis/packaging for next year. I think they went with front and rear wings and possibly front suspension.

Makes sense!

OTOH:
Last year they brought a new floor at Barcelona (rushed) and were able to bring a second new spec floor to France, and then still a new front wing at COTA, and RW endplate corners at Brazil.

So far this year they've brought new sidepods, engine cover, front wing and modified RW endplate corners. I'm going to assume a second floor spec will come sometime in the second half of the year based on how many upgrades should be feasible (judging by 2022). Unless sidepods and engine cover are each equivalent in BC/WT allocation to a floor spec each. Personally I'd assume sidepods and engine cover package to be equivalent to 1 new spec floor roughly in terms of development budget

We also should consider that the rules are stable for 23->24 unlike 22->23

Reason for not bringing the floor update IMHO are financial and strategic. A few races ago they mentioend they are 1 upgrade away from challenging RB. Then in Silverstone they would bring a massive upgrade, but it was only a new front wing. My guess is with the 2022 cost cap results and with the TD on ancillary activities they need to be careful in bringing too many upgrades, both from a PR and financial perspective.
The strategic reason is that if they are too close to RB it will give a signal to RB and motivate them to work harder to keep the advantage.

[denyall]

Surely a new spec floor is due in the next few races?

It hasn't changed since the beginning of the year; other than Merc only Alfa Romeo and Red Bull still have the same floors as their launch spec cars.

They may have abandoned it after deciding to change the chassis/packaging for next year. I think they went with front and rear wings and possibly front suspension.

Makes sense!

OTOH:
Last year they brought a new floor at Barcelona (rushed) and were able to bring a second new spec floor to France, and then still a new front wing at COTA, and RW endplate corners at Brazil.

So far this year they've brought new sidepods, engine cover, front wing and modified RW endplate corners. I'm going to assume a second floor spec will come sometime in the second half of the year based on how many upgrades should be feasible (judging by 2022). Unless sidepods and engine cover are each equivalent in BC/WT allocation to a floor spec each. Personally I'd assume sidepods and engine cover package to be equivalent to 1 new spec floor roughly in terms of development budget

We also should consider that the rules are stable for 23->24 unlike 22->23

I agree, mostly. I do see a situation where development of a floor around the current chassis and cooling package might be a dead end for 24' so they are focusing on development of things that will carry over to 24' and will bring a new floor and monocoque to Bahrain.

[mstar]

Doesnt look like any upgrades other than in spa. i think after summer break its all effort onto 2024

[PlatinumZealot]

Maybe a test floor for Spa and use the summer break to fine tune it.

[Alex_Z]

Another boring race. Lewis had the car for P2 or P3 at the very least, the start but also whatever happened on his outlap on the hards cost him dearly - does anyone have a clip of his outlap? the gap went from 3s to Norris to 9s. Still, it was a great final stint and to take pole against the most dominant car in F1 history it was a good weekend for him.

Redbull finish with the biggest margin of the season on a track they expected to struggle at according to Marko, they will win every race this season. F1 need to step in now it's getting ridicoulous they are killing this sport, there's no point tuning in if you want to see a battle for the win until 2026.

[Farnborough]

Another boring race. Lewis had the car for P2 or P3 at the very least, the start but also whatever happened on his outlap on the hards cost him dearly - does anyone have a clip of his outlap? the gap went from 3s to Norris to 9s. Still, it was a great final stint and to take pole against the most dominant car in F1 history it was a good weekend for him.

Redbull finish with the biggest margin of the season on a track they expected to struggle at according to Marko, they will win every race this season. F1 need to step in now it's getting ridicoulous they are killing this sport, there's no point tuning in if you want to see a battle for the win until 2026.

Well you really don't have to watch it if it's not interesting, is there any point coming to a long time technical forum to tell other people this.

Presumably you saw Merc in the years 2014~2020 ?

The rules are the same for each and every team.

[chrisc90]

Another boring race. Lewis had the car for P2 or P3 at the very least, the start but also whatever happened on his outlap on the hards cost him dearly - does anyone have a clip of his outlap? the gap went from 3s to Norris to 9s. Still, it was a great final stint and to take pole against the most dominant car in F1 history it was a good weekend for him.

Redbull finish with the biggest margin of the season on a track they expected to struggle at according to Marko, they will win every race this season. F1 need to step in now it's getting ridicoulous they are killing this sport, there's no point tuning in if you want to see a battle for the win until 2026.

Well you really don't have to watch it if it's not interesting, is there any point coming to a long time technical forum to tell other people this.

Presumably you saw Merc in the years 2014~2020 ?

The rules are the same for each and every team.

I agree. Its been covered before that there has been as equal dominant teams in the history of F1. I guess its different when the shoe is on the other foot.

There's nothing stopping Mercedes making a upgrade package that is capable of bringing a challenge to Red Bull. They just need to find that little key for the success (for the wins).

Its a time when the grid is at the closest we've seen in a LONG time - in qualifying. The quali this weekend was amazing - even if I dont think the less Free Practice running is ideal.

Its a good spot really now. Mclaren, Mercedes, Ferrari, AMR and Perez all in the mix for the fight for the last 2 spots on the podium.

I think when Mercedes have the chance to develop their sidepods properly and run a nice deep scoop out under the inlet (once they get rid of the midwing saga) they will find performance.

It is far too evident now that the sidepods are a key factor to unleashing performance in this era of regulations - together with the floor. I think the team were a little naïve/oblivious to the fact that the sidepods arent a key factor. They got a sniff of success in 2022 and carried it over until 2023. A handful of races later they changed design concepts.
Remember that they apparently run the RB/sidepods design in the computer and seen that there wasnt as much downforce coming from the zeropod concept they discovered. To be honest, I still dont think they do see where the most downforce is coming from.

There is a saying in life where if you keep looking for a solution to a 'problem' that you get stuck in finding the answers until you take a step or 2 back and re-evaluate and look at it with a fresh head.

They arent in a bad spot at present, and are picking up good points. They still took 3rd best points haul in Hungary and thats pretty key for Merc in the constructors title. With a 136 point deficit to Mclaren I think the climb for Mclaren is a little too high to think of taking 2nd spot.

As others have said, I think they are due a floor upgrade now so how much resource/development has been done on the floor to date we dont know, but you'd honestly expect them to bring one soon.