2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Alex_Z]

Another boring race. Lewis had the car for P2 or P3 at the very least, the start but also whatever happened on his outlap on the hards cost him dearly - does anyone have a clip of his outlap? the gap went from 3s to Norris to 9s. Still, it was a great final stint and to take pole against the most dominant car in F1 history it was a good weekend for him.

Redbull finish with the biggest margin of the season on a track they expected to struggle at according to Marko, they will win every race this season. F1 need to step in now it's getting ridicoulous they are killing this sport, there's no point tuning in if you want to see a battle for the win until 2026.

Well you really don't have to watch it if it's not interesting, is there any point coming to a long time technical forum to tell other people this.

Presumably you saw Merc in the years 2014~2020 ?

The rules are the same for each and every team.

Clearly other ppl on this forum agree w my opinion apart from the redbull fans who seem to plague the Mercedes team thread day in day out. Mercedes in that period was never as dominant as the RB19, I saw multiple winners each season and at least 5 title fights. The rules are the same for everyone except for the team who broke the cost cap rule which by the way is a big reason no other team will catch redbull until 2026.

[Ollywood1987]

As mentioned previously in the thread, brackley do not envisage fighting for a championship, WDC or WCC, until 2025 at the earliest. They just do not understand the floor like newey does. They’re also not pushing, like newey is for perfection; They’re still trying to understand and get a grips on this new ground effect generation of cars.

[Alex_Z]

Another boring race. Lewis had the car for P2 or P3 at the very least, the start but also whatever happened on his outlap on the hards cost him dearly - does anyone have a clip of his outlap? the gap went from 3s to Norris to 9s. Still, it was a great final stint and to take pole against the most dominant car in F1 history it was a good weekend for him.

Redbull finish with the biggest margin of the season on a track they expected to struggle at according to Marko, they will win every race this season. F1 need to step in now it's getting ridicoulous they are killing this sport, there's no point tuning in if you want to see a battle for the win until 2026.

Well you really don't have to watch it if it's not interesting, is there any point coming to a long time technical forum to tell other people this.

Presumably you saw Merc in the years 2014~2020 ?

The rules are the same for each and every team.

I agree. Its been covered before that there has been as equal dominant teams in the history of F1. I guess its different when the shoe is on the other foot.

There's nothing stopping Mercedes making a upgrade package that is capable of bringing a challenge to Red Bull. They just need to find that little key for the success (for the wins).

Its a time when the grid is at the closest we've seen in a LONG time - in qualifying. The quali this weekend was amazing - even if I dont think the less Free Practice running is ideal.

Its a good spot really now. Mclaren, Mercedes, Ferrari, AMR and Perez all in the mix for the fight for the last 2 spots on the podium.

I think when Mercedes have the chance to develop their sidepods properly and run a nice deep scoop out under the inlet (once they get rid of the midwing saga) they will find performance.

It is far too evident now that the sidepods are a key factor to unleashing performance in this era of regulations - together with the floor. I think the team were a little naïve/oblivious to the fact that the sidepods arent a key factor. They got a sniff of success in 2022 and carried it over until 2023. A handful of races later they changed design concepts.
Remember that they apparently run the RB/sidepods design in the computer and seen that there wasnt as much downforce coming from the zeropod concept they discovered. To be honest, I still dont think they do see where the most downforce is coming from.

There is a saying in life where if you keep looking for a solution to a 'problem' that you get stuck in finding the answers until you take a step or 2 back and re-evaluate and look at it with a fresh head.

They arent in a bad spot at present, and are picking up good points. They still took 3rd best points haul in Hungary and thats pretty key for Merc in the constructors title. With a 136 point deficit to Mclaren I think the climb for Mclaren is a little too high to think of taking 2nd spot.

As others have said, I think they are due a floor upgrade now so how much resource/development has been done on the floor to date we dont know, but you'd honestly expect them to bring one soon.

There's no equally dominant car previously, rb19 is by far and away the most dominant car of all time. To suggest there's nothing stopping mercedes when there's a whole budget cap preventing them from fixing their car is laughable. The teams are exhausting their resources trying to catch up to redbull and they still can't get close, redbull bring their first big update of the season to hungary and they leave everyone in the dust with their biggest win of the season, this cycle will contiue until 2026.

The qualifying apart from redbull is close, there's no way Lewis should have got pole on saturday against the mighty rb19, that was down to poor performance from Max he should have qualified at least 3 tenths ahead according to the pundits.

[omegacel71]

Hamilton only got pole by 0.003 to a car that was exclusively set up for Race Pace. They are miles ahead.

[Cs98]

There's no equally dominant car previously, rb19 is by far and away the most dominant car of all time. To suggest there's nothing stopping mercedes when there's a whole budget cap preventing them from fixing their car is laughable. The teams are exhausting their resources trying to catch up to redbull and they still can't get close, redbull bring their first big update of the season to hungary and they leave everyone in the dust with their biggest win of the season, this cycle will contiue until 2026.

The qualifying apart from redbull is close, there's no way Lewis should have got pole on saturday against the mighty rb19, that was down to poor performance from Max he should have qualified at least 3 tenths ahead according to the pundits.

2014-2016 was easily as dominant. Hell, they would've won every race in 2016 by a mile if not for first lap tangles.

And don't pin your hopes on 2026, that's going to be ground effect too.

[ValeVida46]

2014-2016 was easily as dominant. Hell, they would've won every race in 2016 by a mile if not for first lap tangles.

And don't pin your hopes on 2026, that's going to be ground effect too.

But then Rosberg and Hamilton were at least providing a show for that dominance, which is clearly not the case for the processions we are seeing today.

[basti313]

2014-2016 was easily as dominant. Hell, they would've won every race in 2016 by a mile if not for first lap tangles.

And don't pin your hopes on 2026, that's going to be ground effect too.

But then Rosberg and Hamilton were at least providing a show for that dominance, which is clearly not the case for the processions we are seeing today.

I am surprised by the comparisons. Ros and Ham were providing a show in one year, the rest was quite clear.
And we could see a quite similar approach 2018, 2019 and 2020: 2018 the boosted Ferrari was playing with Merc for half a season. Then the Merc was dominant, just like the Bull in 2022. Now we have a very similar season season to 2019. In 2019 the sum of the gaps for Britain and Hungary was even bigger to the next non-Merc car.
Maybe we see next year even a pink RedBull in P3 in the end.

But as said, the dominance is surely exaggerated for the second half by the cost cap and the Merc dominance just ended because no one was investing in the old rule anymore in 2021 and they cut the floor. Not much hope till 2026 now.

[mkay]

There's no equally dominant car previously, rb19 is by far and away the most dominant car of all time. To suggest there's nothing stopping mercedes when there's a whole budget cap preventing them from fixing their car is laughable. The teams are exhausting their resources trying to catch up to redbull and they still can't get close, redbull bring their first big update of the season to hungary and they leave everyone in the dust with their biggest win of the season, this cycle will contiue until 2026.

The qualifying apart from redbull is close, there's no way Lewis should have got pole on saturday against the mighty rb19, that was down to poor performance from Max he should have qualified at least 3 tenths ahead according to the pundits.

2014-2016 was easily as dominant. Hell, they would've won every race in 2016 by a mile if not for first lap tangles.

And don't pin your hopes on 2026, that's going to be ground effect too.

One way to allow other teams to catch up would be to mandate an active suspension system, whether it is standardized or not.

[DGP123]

And don't pin your hopes on 2026, that's going to be ground effect too.

That’s it, then. Think the plan is:

WDC in 23’,24’,25’,26’,27’ & 28’. Max’ contract expires at the end of that year, with him as 8 time WDC. Retire.

[Cs98]

2014-2016 was easily as dominant. Hell, they would've won every race in 2016 by a mile if not for first lap tangles.

And don't pin your hopes on 2026, that's going to be ground effect too.

But then Rosberg and Hamilton were at least providing a show for that dominance, which is clearly not the case for the processions we are seeing today.

Enjoying the show is subjective. I was merely speaking to the dominance of the car in response to that comment.

[Cs98]

One way to allow other teams to catch up would be to mandate an active suspension system, whether it is standardized or not.

Meh. 2026 is already going to be heavily dependent on active aero. You add active suspension to that and the car is practically driving itself at that point.

[CHT]

And don't pin your hopes on 2026, that's going to be ground effect too.

That’s it, then. Think the plan is:

WDC in 23’,24’,25’,26’,27’ & 28’. Max’ contract expires at the end of that year, with him as 8 time WDC. Retire.

26 is anyone guess and don't think AN will remain in F1 beyond 2025.

2026 will be the first time RBR will be producing their engine so its anyone guess how this may turn out.

[DGP123]

26 is anyone guess and don't think AN will remain in F1 beyond 2025.

2026 will be the first time RBR will be producing their engine so its anyone guess how this may turn out.

I think AN would definitely stick around and help with the concept for 26’. They will eye it up at the end of 24’, and begin in, 25’. That’s not far away at all. I wouldn’t have any concerns regarding their engine. They recruited well, and early.

At the end of a reg, that’s when most become vulnerable to having their advantage taken away, and probably why most think that Mercedes earliest chance to win a title will be in 2025.

[CHT]

26 is anyone guess and don't think AN will remain in F1 beyond 2025.

2026 will be the first time RBR will be producing their engine so its anyone guess how this may turn out.

I think AN would definitely stick around and help with the concept for 26’. They will eye it up at the end of 24’, and begin in, 25’. That’s not far away at all. I wouldn’t have any concerns regarding their engine. They recruited well, and early.

At the end of a reg, that’s when most become vulnerable to having their advantage taken away, and probably why most think that Mercedes earliest chance to win a title will be in 2025.

For a person who has accomplished this much, retiring as a record-breaking champion designer will be a good send-off. For this reason, AN may even retire earlier to make way for the new team to fully take charge of 2026.
At 67 years old, I do not think anyone will enjoy the heavy traveling and responsibility which is required in F1.
Really nothing else to prove other than enjoying his retirement.

2025 is perhaps the best opportunity for Merc or other teams to catch RBR, but allocating too many resources in 2025 may also compromise the 2026 car

[ringo]

2014-2016 was easily as dominant. Hell, they would've won every race in 2016 by a mile if not for first lap tangles.

And don't pin your hopes on 2026, that's going to be ground effect too.

But then Rosberg and Hamilton were at least providing a show for that dominance, which is clearly not the case for the processions we are seeing today.

Not just that. Those mercedes cars had glaring weakenesses. Any given day they could have reliability issues or chronic tyre deg and tyre temp issues sometimes fric suspension tuning issues with some tracks. Those monstrous cars had achilles heels. The rb19 does not. It's perfect and will not break down.