2023 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 21 - 23

[Alex_Z]

https://i.redd.it/m3fiqhpukudb1.jpg
Tsunoda has often unintentionally helped Red Bull in some way or other sometimes. Can remember Zandvoort last year.

I mean it was clear back in 2021 that RB & AT collude to help the former. Turkey, Zandvoort, Qatar & Hungary are a few examples. Tsunoda will do anything to stay in Marko's good books. It's essentially cheating and it's strangely ignored by the F1 media.

[Alexf1]

Cause there are as many examples to prove the contrary as I've just posted

[jz11]

...

You seem a bit rattled now,...

... So you simply dislike Hamilton and want to make his achievement look bad. Am I right?

not rattled at all, amazed, yes

keep believing that it was Hamiltons magic that made him get the pole, but ended up 40sec down at the finish line and 1sec slower fastest lap in race, also, the driver that is known to be great on the tires somehow managed to mismanage his stints in this race, geez, I wonder why, must have been just bad luck...

[mclaren111]

...

You seem a bit rattled now,...

... So you simply dislike Hamilton and want to make his achievement look bad. Am I right?

not rattled at all, amazed, yes

keep believing that it was Hamiltons magic that made him get the pole, but ended up 40sec down at the finish line and 1sec slower fastest lap in race, also, the driver that is known to be great on the tires somehow managed to mismanage his stints in this race, geez, I wonder why, must have been just bad luck...

[AR3-GP]

For me the worst instances were in 2021. Gasly dived out of Max's way at Qatar costing him 0 seconds, whilst Tsunoda did absolutely everything he could to keep Hamilton behind him at Turkey costing him at least 5s - probably much more.

It's a situation that creates lots of issues in a title fight when AT have a competitive car. At the minute, it's not a problem bc AT are so slow and nobody challenges RB, but the closer AT is to RB in performance the more often these situations will arise

Marko controls the fate of the two AT drivers and if they hurt Max / help Marko's rivals then he will probably be unhappy with them and their career prospects could be directly hurt - RB juniors are at the mercy of Marko mostly.

Even if in this instance Yuki had no awareness that Lando was fighting RB for the race lead, I have the distinct feeling he wouldn't have ignored so many blue flags if it was Max in his mirrors.

It will remain a problem for the sport for as long as there is a joint driver program between AT and RB. This is the greater problem compared to the shared ownership

This isn't really a team problem. It's a junior academy driver problem. Tsunoda was told of the blue flags. He has a mind of his own which may be to serve his own interest.

As a reminder:

Monaco 2018: Ocon famously jumped out of the way for Hamilton in Monaco, of all places. It was discussed that Ocon said their was unwritten rule about it because he is Mercedes driver, and Toto said "that's the way it is".
https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula ... ce-fixing/


Singapore 2019, Giovinazzi (Ferrari junion) dived out of the way of the Ferraris after the 1st round of pitstops, and made it difficult to everyone else.

Turkey 2021, Tsunoda practically said he wanted Honda to win in his final year, in addition to RB.

It doesn't really matter if their is shared team ownership. It's the driver's own motivations to be promoted to the senior team which can cause this. It's not a RB specific issue.

Even if you banned junior driver academies, a junior driver will attempt to curry favor with the big team that he wants to drive for in the future. If Leclerc was an "unbranded" driver and knew he wanted to drive for Ferrari and was in negotiations to replace Raikkonen, will he ignore blue flags when a Ferrari is behind him?

All of the drivers have their own self-interest. All the FIA can do is employ more aggressive policing of blue flag violations. You can't remove a junior driver's motivations to "impress" the big team that he wants to drive for. It may not be sporting in the big picture for a junior driver to behave like this, but juniors often feel the ends justify the means if they are rewarded with a contract at the big team.

[ValeVida46]

It doesn't really matter if their is shared team ownership.

Kinda does.

Given the patterns that emerge, it's undeniable really.

[AR3-GP]

It doesn't really matter if their is shared team ownership.

Kinda does.

Given the patterns that emerge, it's undeniable really.

and your comments on the rest of the post?

[Just_a_fan]

This isn't really a team problem. It's a junior academy driver problem. Tsunoda was told of the blue flags. He has a mind of his own which may be to serve his own interest.

Yes, but that interest will potentially be framed by who controls his contract and his immediate future.

Not "actively helping" a competitor of the person that holds your future in their hand isn't that same as "actively impeding" that competitor, but the outcome can be the same. And that helps you because it helps the person who controls your future.

Of course, Tsunoda might just have been having an incompetent 30 seconds. But the outcome was that Norris was slightly disadvantaged by it, whatever the cause of Tsunoda's breach of the blue flag rules.

[AR3-GP]

This isn't really a team problem. It's a junior academy driver problem. Tsunoda was told of the blue flags. He has a mind of his own which may be to serve his own interest.

Yes, but that interest will potentially be framed by who controls his contract and his immediate future.

Which is why it's a junior academy problem....

The solution is not to tell teams they cannot have junior affiliated drivers. It's to actually police blue flag violations...

[Just_a_fan]

This isn't really a team problem. It's a junior academy driver problem. Tsunoda was told of the blue flags. He has a mind of his own which may be to serve his own interest.

Yes, but that interest will potentially be framed by who controls his contract and his immediate future.

Which is why it's a junior academy problem....

It's a semantic distinction. The junior academy is Red Bull's. The teams are both Red Bull's. It's thus a Red Bull team problem.

[AR3-GP]

Yes, but that interest will potentially be framed by who controls his contract and his immediate future.

Which is why it's a junior academy problem....

It's a semantic distinction. The junior academy is Red Bull's. The teams are both Red Bull's. It's thus a Red Bull team problem.

and what happens when a promising Ferrari or Mercedes junior lands himself at a backmarker team? Like Ocon in 2018. Giovinazzi in 2019. Leclerc in 2018. Or Mick more recently?

The decision making at the wheel comes from the driver and those decisions are often self-serving. His chance to drive for his "masters" is between himself and his masters, not internet critics. If he thinks he can do something curry favor with his masters so that he can be later rewarded, that is what he will do. It doesn't matter if Tsunoda drives for AT or Williams. He would do the same thing. He's a Honda backed driver first and foremost. In 2021, he said he wanted Honda to win the championship.

The solution is not to dissolve junior academies. How would anyone other than the richest and most privileged get to F1 then? The solution is to actually police blue flag violations. This is rather elementary.

[denyall]

Which is why it's a junior academy problem....

It's a semantic distinction. The junior academy is Red Bull's. The teams are both Red Bull's. It's thus a Red Bull team problem.

and what happens when a promising Ferrari or Mercedes junior lands himself at a backmarker team? Like Ocon in 2018. Giovinazzi in 2019. Leclerc in 2018. Or Mick more recently?

The decision making at the wheel comes from the driver and those decisions are often self-serving. The solution is not to dissolve junior academies. How would anyone other than the richest and most privileged get to F1 then? The solution is to actually police blue flag violations. This is rather elementary.

Enforcing blue flags is the answer and it is incredibly easy to do. Easier than track limits. Ignore 5 blue flags (pick a number but you get the idea) automatic 5 second penalty.

Driver academies are critical to the sport as are large team support of smaller teams in the form of tech support and supply. Never be able to outlaw big teams influence and little teams for drivers.

[Just_a_fan]

Which is why it's a junior academy problem....

It's a semantic distinction. The junior academy is Red Bull's. The teams are both Red Bull's. It's thus a Red Bull team problem.

and what happens when a promising Ferrari or Mercedes junior lands himself at a backmarker team? Like Ocon in 2018. Giovinazzi in 2019. Leclerc in 2018. Or Mick more recently?

The decision making at the wheel comes from the driver and those decisions are often self-serving. The solution is not to dissolve junior academies. How would anyone other than the richest and most privileged get to F1 then? The solution is to actually police blue flag violations. This is rather elementary.

But even with strict blue flag policing, a driver can make the pass easier or harder. For example, slow on the racing line sufficient to allow the pass but requiring the other driver to drive on the marbles or wet track in a tricky location. Or pull over off the racing line and let the following driver through unimpeded.

As for the junior academies, perhaps it would be nice for LM to sponsor young drivers. Effectively, the junior formulae are like apprenticeships with LM benefitting from the cream of the crop providing entertainment that they market as F1.

Sadly, as with most things where large sums of money are concerned, the people making the most are the ones not risking it in the first place.

[omegacel71]

https://i.redd.it/1n33aiie5xdb1.png
Feels like Mercedes made a bad gamble on a late safety car. If they pitted him few laps earlier , he would have got P3

[Just_a_fan]

Enforcing blue flags is the answer and it is incredibly easy to do. Easier than track limits. Ignore 5 blue flags (pick a number but you get the idea) automatic 5 second penalty.

This is already in place. you ignore 3 blue flags and you can be penalised.

The issue is that the stewards/race control seem to have totally missed it. Which is strange when they were docking lap times and giving black/white flags for track limits.