2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Xyz22]

Exactly. The car was like it was in Barcelona. Then they had the test were they tried a different setup direction and it worked for 2 races. And now the tyre construction is changed so that setup philosophy is 99.9% out the window. The fact remains they don't seem to be able to adapt the tyre treatment to different conditions.

I think Austria and Canada are outliers, Vanja. They are very "unique" tracks where cars that had huge issues DWF wise often performed quite well (look at the SF 90 for instance which was strong in Bahrain, Canada and Austria. Coincidence?).

You could see already in Austria how Lando was quicker in the third sector (where you have a few "standard" corners) despite the dirty air

With the upgrades, they made the car more stable in race trim. They don't have insane deg and huge balance shifts even across the same corner, but they didn't make huge improvement on raw performance.

While I agree on the fact that Canada and Austria are somewhat different, there is just too much going on in performance differences since Silverstone.
No team understood how the soft tyre could suddenly last for half a race distance at Silverstone and likewise the hard tyre wasn't so much slower than predicted compared to the soft.
Red Bull nailed today's race again but when was the last time Verstappen was beaten by a Mercedes in qualifying?
How did an Alfa suddenly out perform both Ferrari on raw pace in qualifying. And while I think McLaren did a great update, they now suddenly are a competitor for Red Bull on certain circuits and on others they still seem to be best of the rest. Ferrari on the other hand seems to be getting worse every time.

According to RB they decide to set up the car exclusively for the race. They have such a massive advantage that they still started P2. In the race McL which was the second-fastest car was around 1s slower.

Ferrari just lacks DWF. Pre upgrade they were probably having a better peak performance but the car was often awful to drive in race trim. The performance seems worse now because McL has made a huge jump. While Ferrari was fixing the "stability" of the car the others (MB and McL) were able to find performance as well. Thankfully, Aston went backwards for whatever reasons.

[Macafangrskg]

The moral of the story is you can't patch up flawed concepts. The car has inherit issues that aren't going to change mid-season, it is just how it is. I think any one sensible enough would know that and I would hope the engineers realize the mistake they made from last season to now.

Tell that to Mclaren...

One major difference between McLaren and Ferrari and Merc are that McLaren acknowledged 4 months before the start of the season that the concept was bad. And the abandoned it. They didn't have time or budget to change the chassis but changed the whole aero philosophy. They didn't patched the car. They reworked it. Now they are more than 6 months ahead of Merc and Ferrari because they know where to go for 2024.Ferrari is still scratching their heads. Probably Spa and Monza will be the better circuit for Ferrari to try to score as many point possible due to the good work in straight line speed but everything else is a write off

[Xyz22]

The moral of the story is you can't patch up flawed concepts. The car has inherit issues that aren't going to change mid-season, it is just how it is. I think any one sensible enough would know that and I would hope the engineers realize the mistake they made from last season to now.

Tell that to Mclaren...

One major difference between McLaren and Ferrari and Merc are that McLaren acknowledged 4 months before the start of the season that the concept was bad. And the abandoned it. They didn't have time or budget to change the chassis but changed the whole aero philosophy. They didn't patched the car. They reworked it. Now they are more than 6 months ahead of Merc and Ferrari because they know where to go for 2024.Ferrari is still scratching their heads. Probably Spa and Monza will be the better circuit for Ferrari to try to score as many point possible due to the good work in straight line speed but everything else is a write off

Ferrari also didn't pretty much touch suspensions at all, while Mercedes reworked the front suspensions significantly.

[hape]

The moral of the story is you can't patch up flawed concepts. The car has inherit issues that aren't going to change mid-season, it is just how it is. I think any one sensible enough would know that and I would hope the engineers realize the mistake they made from last season to now.

Tell that to Mclaren...

One major difference between McLaren and Ferrari and Merc are that McLaren acknowledged 4 months before the start of the season that the concept was bad. And the abandoned it. They didn't have time or budget to change the chassis but changed the whole aero philosophy. They didn't patched the car. They reworked it. Now they are more than 6 months ahead of Merc and Ferrari because they know where to go for 2024.Ferrari is still scratching their heads. Probably Spa and Monza will be the better circuit for Ferrari to try to score as many point possible due to the good work in straight line speed but everything else is a write off

Don’t worry, Ferrari will find a way to f… it up somehow.

[MTL79]

I've been a fan of Ferrari for 40 years... I can't remember a season as bad as this apart from maybe that first year that Todt joined the team. The problem seems to be incompetence of the personnel and in the facilities used and I am worried this is not something that will be improved upon next year or 2025 either for that matter.

I have to admit, this year has really taken a toll on my faith in this team.

[Xwang]

I've been a fan of Ferrari for 40 years... I can't remember a season as bad as this apart from maybe that first year that Todt joined the team. The problem seems to be incompetence of the personnel and in the facilities used and I am worried this is not something that will be improved upon next year or 2025 either for that matter.

I have to admit, this year has really taken a toll on my faith in this team.

Well, I remember the 1991 and 1992

[Harvester]

One thing I really don't get. Maybe someone can explain.
Sainz team radio before first pit shows clearly he has the final say when it comes to when to pit. And all year long there is almost never confidence in strategy.
How is this possible with such a team like Ferrari.
Not any team looks so incompetent like ferrari when it comes to strategy during gp.

[gshevlin]

The fundamental issue is that Ferrari have not brought any upgrades to the car that have significantly reduced their race lap times.
Since the start of the season, all the teams around them have improved their cars, with the possible exception of Aston Martin.
As a result, Ferrari have slipped from row 2 to row 5 of an average starting grid.

[Afterburner]

The moral of the story is you can't patch up flawed concepts. The car has inherit issues that aren't going to change mid-season, it is just how it is. I think any one sensible enough would know that and I would hope the engineers realize the mistake they made from last season to now.

Tell that to Mclaren...

One major difference between McLaren and Ferrari and Merc are that McLaren acknowledged 4 months before the start of the season that the concept was bad. And the abandoned it. They didn't have time or budget to change the chassis but changed the whole aero philosophy. They didn't patched the car. They reworked it. Now they are more than 6 months ahead of Merc and Ferrari because they know where to go for 2024.Ferrari is still scratching their heads. Probably Spa and Monza will be the better circuit for Ferrari to try to score as many point possible due to the good work in straight line speed but everything else is a write off

Since Schumi days, the team won a championship with Kimi, we're talking almost 20 years of excuses.

Ferrari's problem it's their philosophy, they need to change it if they wanna be a top team.

Top teams screw designs, change staff, have bad pilots but their core stays and makes them move forward.

Since the beginning of last season until now, Ferrari performance it's falling at the same rate the others are making gains. You can change drivers, team principals, engineers, cheat the engine fuel flow rate, it doesn't matter, they just find a way to screw evrything.

Saying this, this season it's over and next season will be the same, lot's of hopes, lot's of excuses, bad results.

[Xwang]

Tell that to Mclaren...

One major difference between McLaren and Ferrari and Merc are that McLaren acknowledged 4 months before the start of the season that the concept was bad. And the abandoned it. They didn't have time or budget to change the chassis but changed the whole aero philosophy. They didn't patched the car. They reworked it. Now they are more than 6 months ahead of Merc and Ferrari because they know where to go for 2024.Ferrari is still scratching their heads. Probably Spa and Monza will be the better circuit for Ferrari to try to score as many point possible due to the good work in straight line speed but everything else is a write off

Since Schumi days, the team won a championship with Kimi, we're talking almost 20 years of excuses.

Ferrari's problem it's their philosophy, they need to change it if they wanna be a top team.

Top teams screw designs, change staff, have bad pilots but their core stays and makes them move forward.

Since the beginning of last season until now, Ferrari performance it's falling at the same rate the others are making gains. You can change drivers, team principals, engineers, cheat the engine fuel flow rate, it doesn't matter, they just find a way to screw evrything.

Saying this, this season it's over and next season will be the same, lot's of hopes, lot's of excuses, bad results.

I agree with you. With the historic team prize and the budget cup, Ferrari's president and owner doesn't have any reason to invest a penny to build a winning team.
Ferrari gains more than it can spend by just taking part to races.

[hollus]

Ferrari sabotaging Sainz again

A few of you have taken exception to this post.

Well, posting it once, it is 100% OK. Repeating the point would be spam.

But just for context, this is what the spanish sport press is writing about this race:


https://as.com/motor/formula_1/ferrari- ... -parada-n/

F1 | HUNGRÍA
Ferrari le hace un ‘undercut’ a Sainz muy difícil de entender
El español rodaba delante del monegasco, pero adelantaron la parada de Charles. “Habrá sido por la mala parada anterior”, dice Carlos. Las razones de Vasseur no convencen.
Jesús Balseiro
Budapest
Actualizado a 23 de julio de 2023 17:40 CEST
44
Charles Leclerc y Carlos Sainz (Ferrari SF-23). Hungaroring, Hungría. F1 2023.
ATTILA KISBENEDEKAFP
Normalmente, el piloto que va delante tiene preferencia para cambiar primero los neumáticos con respecto a su compañero de equipo. Pero Ferrari no siempre es un equipo normal. Sainz rodaba sexto con un segundo y medio sobre Leclerc, pero los italianos adelantaron la segunda parada de Charles, así que para cuando Carlos entró una vuelta más tarde, salió por detrás del monegasco. Al final acabaron séptimo y octavo, superados ambos por Russell. El ‘undercut’ entre compañeros no se entendió

I’ll try to translate:

Ferrari makes an undercut to Sainz which is very hard to understand…
…the spaniard was ahead of the one from Monaco but they made Charles stop first…
…the reasons from Vasseur are not convincing…
…normally the driver ahead has preference to change tires ahead of the teammate but Ferrari is not a normal team…
…so when Carlos stopped, he came out behind Charles…
…the undercut between team mates was not-understandable.

I post this just to make clear what the atmosphere is in Spain regarding this issue that has plagued this thread lately. Planted by the Spanish press or not, that is what many people perceive is happening, quite reminiscent of 2007 and the Spanish press vs the English press.

[AR3-GP]

Did Ferrari not completely bottle Leclerc's first pit stop? Is that not enough justification to "right" the wrong, if that is what it turned out to be?

In any case, Sainz stopped after Leclerc, and did not manage to keep within the 5 second margin of Leclerc which would have allowed Sainz to reclaim the position with post race penalty at the end.

Case closed to me.

[IntrinsicVoid]

Did Ferrari not completely bottle Leclerc's first pit stop? Is that not enough justification to "right" the wrong, if that is what it turned out to be?

In any case, Sainz stopped after Leclerc, and did not manage to keep within the 5 second margin of Leclerc which would have allowed Sainz to reclaim the position with post race penalty at the end.

Case closed to me.

Agree with this.
And you can also simply say that all shenanigans which always happen to Leclerc are part of sabotaging plan. Of course it’s nonsense.

If it wasn’t the 2nd pitstop issue and Leclerc didn’t had botched pitstop then the fingers would have been pointed for not switching them when Sainz was on softs and if I recall it correctly the fell of pretty quickly for that to bring some additional value. Sainz already perfected his start which enabled him to postpone his first pitstop a bit.

[rayden]

Piastri had damage - Absolutely nothing to be gained from analysis on the the gap between Charles in him... Norris was the only reliable benchmark for Mclaren after the first pit stops.

[Vanja #66]

Sainz sr must be hard at work with Spanish (motor)sport media