2023 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 21 - 23

[organic]

Mclaren was the 2nd fastest here. Cannot take cheeky Lando's comments as gospel. It's just his tit for tat with Lewis after lewis said he had a rocket ship in silverstone.
Midway in the race the mclarens had higher deg than the mercedes but they were the faster package. The timing charts would show this.
They will destroy mercedes at spa as well.
Nothing mercedes could do to come second, Totto was just being overly optimistic to create a false sense of hope.

Can you demonstrate with timing charts what you mean?

Mean and median race pace across the entire 70 laps has Lewis ahead of Norris despite Lewis having those slow warmup laps on the hard.

So toto, the laptime data, Norris all say Merc were probably 2nd fastest but no your theoretical charts and feeling must be correct

[dans79]

No, you just have to let the other driver by at the earliest opportunity. Most drivers seem to pull over if being lapped, I think, but it's not a requirement.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 5yMld.html

Blue flag

The blue flag is normally waved to inform a driver that they are about to be overtaken, but it takes on a slightly different meaning for the race compared to sessions earlier in the weekend:

F1 drivers have plenty to think about while racing around the world at lightning speeds. This includes a complete understanding of the flags shown by marshals trackside to signal situations from accidents to debris on the circuit. In our next beginner’s guide, we present an all-in-one list to help you through the season…

Green flag
An easy one to start with, the green flag is used to indicate that the track is clear, whether this is at the start of a warm-up lap, practice session or qualifying session, or immediately after an incident that necessitated the use of one or more yellow flags.

READ MORE: From cutting curfews to grid penalties – 10 rule changes you need to know about for the 2023 F1 season

Blue flag
The blue flag is normally waved to inform a driver that they are about to be overtaken, but it takes on a slightly different meaning for the race compared to sessions earlier in the weekend:

At all times:
It is shown to inform a driver leaving the pits that traffic is approaching.

During practice:
It is shown to inform a driver that a faster car is close behind and is about to overtake.

During the race:
It is shown to a driver who is about to be lapped. When shown, the driver concerned must allow the following car to pass at the earliest opportunity and, if three warnings are ignored, they will be penalised.

what this overview doesn't mention is that the overtaking driver must be within a certain delta before ble flags are shown.

[ringo]

https://www.racefans.net/2023/07/23/w ... o-fourth/

I dont see what wolff's talking about.
Setting the charts to hamilton, lando and oscar.
Mercedes was quicker about halfway, and what also killed them on the last stint was not pitting when lando did.
Hamitlon was 2 seconds a lap slower after lando pitted and he stayed out.

The Mclarens are super rapid on fresh tyres.
Even if hamilton pit right after or before land the mclaren's rapid outlap would cover him.

Hamilton had more pace when the horse flew through the gate already.

Mclaren was faster when it mattered on heavy fuel. Even at the first stops the mclarens were running almost 1 second a lap faster.

They dealth the damage in the first 30 laps and mercedes put the nail in the coffin by that prolonged stint by Hamilton.
But i dont see hamilton beating mclaren by doing anything different.
Staying ahead at lap one would have improved his chances. But him vs 2 mclarens that are 1
to 2 seconds faster on an outlap...

[Macklaren]

Mclaren was the 2nd fastest here. Cannot take cheeky Lando's comments as gospel. It's just his tit for tat with Lewis after lewis said he had a rocket ship in silverstone.
Midway in the race the mclarens had higher deg than the mercedes but they were the faster package. The timing charts would show this.
They will destroy mercedes at spa as well.
Nothing mercedes could do to come second, Totto was just being overly optimistic to create a false sense of hope.

Can you demonstrate with timing charts what you mean?

Mean and median race pace across the entire 70 laps has Lewis ahead of Norris despite Lewis having those slow warmup laps on the hard.

So toto, the laptime data, Norris all say Merc were probably 2nd fastest but no your theoretical charts and feeling must be correct

Lando had no real pressure for much of the race so was managing the tires as best he could. Roughly 1/3rd through the race he told his engineer he was "Pace 2" (out of 5) and half way through the race he said he was "Pace 0". He only really pushed when he thought Checo was catching up to him 10 laps from the end and only because he was caught up in traffic.

[jz11]

Mclaren was the 2nd fastest here. Cannot take cheeky Lando's comments as gospel. It's just his tit for tat with Lewis after lewis said he had a rocket ship in silverstone.
Midway in the race the mclarens had higher deg than the mercedes but they were the faster package. The timing charts would show this.
They will destroy mercedes at spa as well.
Nothing mercedes could do to come second, Totto was just being overly optimistic to create a false sense of hope.

Can you demonstrate with timing charts what you mean?

Mean and median race pace across the entire 70 laps has Lewis ahead of Norris despite Lewis having those slow warmup laps on the hard.

So toto, the laptime data, Norris all say Merc were probably 2nd fastest but no your theoretical charts and feeling must be correct

using mean and median over the whole race is akin to adding together best sector times from multiple quali runs and claiming - this was the ultimate lap time, it just isn't, it may be, but in vast majority of cases it just isn't (mainly due to tires not able to last for a whole quali lap)

you might devise something from pre/post pitstop laps, and that is with big IF there was actually reason for them to push, AND if it was even possible for them to do it without sacrificing too much, knowing well that extracting too much too soon might lead to big problems later on in the race, which in Lando's case made no sense, he had no chance of catching Max on pace, all he could do is hope for safety car, and then you want the tires preserved as best as you could, just in case you might not get a chance of a favorable pitstop

if you want that lap chart to mean anything more, you MUST go through lap by lap and apply a variable of how representative that lap time was considering where the car was during that lap in the race, but this means you have to know what the teams strategy was for the car, which we don't know and can only guess, and even then it will be basically the same as using your personal experience of watching races for decades, which may also affected by thickness of the tin foil used to fashion the hat and quality of crystal in the ball

my conclusion was - Russel was relatively fast, because qualified out of position, Lewis was struggling, because qualified out of position, McLaren were comfortable, and RB were fast AND comfortable, because Perez was doing what he did, and if I really wanted to, I could probably massage that lap time chart to "prove" all of this, but I CBA really

[Big Tea]

Mclaren was the 2nd fastest here. Cannot take cheeky Lando's comments as gospel. It's just his tit for tat with Lewis after lewis said he had a rocket ship in silverstone.
Midway in the race the mclarens had higher deg than the mercedes but they were the faster package. The timing charts would show this.
They will destroy mercedes at spa as well.
Nothing mercedes could do to come second, Totto was just being overly optimistic to create a false sense of hope.

The slow long corner could be Mclaren's problem. If they are following into it, they may not catch up enough for the pass with DRS in time

[basti313]

Mclaren was the 2nd fastest here. Cannot take cheeky Lando's comments as gospel. It's just his tit for tat with Lewis after lewis said he had a rocket ship in silverstone.
Midway in the race the mclarens had higher deg than the mercedes but they were the faster package. The timing charts would show this.
They will destroy mercedes at spa as well.
Nothing mercedes could do to come second, Totto was just being overly optimistic to create a false sense of hope.

The slow long corner could be Mclaren's problem. If they are following into it, they may not catch up enough for the pass with DRS in time

For everyone and this is why Merc elongated the stint for Ham. With pitting at the same time as Lando no way to overtake. They needed a tire delta and some Safety Car luck.
The race was simply decided in the first and second corner. Lando won his P2 solely in the second corner, without that nice pass he would have been P4.

[Sieper]

Ofc. Any pace difference between Merc and McL is very minor. Track position is king here. In fact, too bad Russell messed up qualy, or the team for him, but he was there too, to be in traffic at lap start, otherwise we could have seen a 4 car tactical battle.

[omegacel71]

The difference is only around 0.02 seconds lol. And it's mostly due to that godly last stint.

[ringo]

Mclaren was the 2nd fastest here. Cannot take cheeky Lando's comments as gospel. It's just his tit for tat with Lewis after lewis said he had a rocket ship in silverstone.
Midway in the race the mclarens had higher deg than the mercedes but they were the faster package. The timing charts would show this.
They will destroy mercedes at spa as well.
Nothing mercedes could do to come second, Totto was just being overly optimistic to create a false sense of hope.

The slow long corner could be Mclaren's problem. If they are following into it, they may not catch up enough for the pass with DRS in time

For everyone and this is why Merc elongated the stint for Ham. With pitting at the same time as Lando no way to overtake. They needed a tire delta and some Safety Car luck.
The race was simply decided in the first and second corner. Lando won his P2 solely in the second corner, without that nice pass he would have been P4.

Nope. Just run that race through in your mind. Lando would be P-3 after lap 1, even if Lewis and Max are 1 and 2.
Max would overtake hamilton easily by the time DRS is enabled. Lando and Oscar follow Hamilton around with more pace than him but cannot overtake. Simply strategy to get the Mclarens ahead. Do the opposite of Hamilton and leave 1 car out. Or pit first to force Hamilton to pit, one stays out and eithe runs longer or also pit using outlap data from the other car which shows the mclaren 2 second a lap faster on the outlap and that would be game over for Mercedes.
They were never getting on that podium under normal circumstances.

[Hammerfist]

The slow long corner could be Mclaren's problem. If they are following into it, they may not catch up enough for the pass with DRS in time

For everyone and this is why Merc elongated the stint for Ham. With pitting at the same time as Lando no way to overtake. They needed a tire delta and some Safety Car luck.
The race was simply decided in the first and second corner. Lando won his P2 solely in the second corner, without that nice pass he would have been P4.

Nope. Just run that race through in your mind. Lando would be P-3 after lap 1, even if Lewis and Max are 1 and 2.
Max would overtake hamilton easily by the time DRS is enabled. Lando and Oscar follow Hamilton around with more pace than him but cannot overtake. Simply strategy to get the Mclarens ahead. Do the opposite of Hamilton and leave 1 car out. Or pit first to force Hamilton to pit, one stays out and eithe runs longer or also pit using outlap data from the other car which shows the mclaren 2 second a lap faster on the outlap and that would be game over for Mercedes.
They were never getting on that podium under normal circumstances.

Norris would not have been able to get hamilton if he was p4 at the start. Not enough pace advantage. He said so pretty much himself. He could not even attack his teammate at that stage. Mclaren fans getting overly excited i feel.

[ringo]

Well that's just not true. Lol

[basti313]

The slow long corner could be Mclaren's problem. If they are following into it, they may not catch up enough for the pass with DRS in time

For everyone and this is why Merc elongated the stint for Ham. With pitting at the same time as Lando no way to overtake. They needed a tire delta and some Safety Car luck.
The race was simply decided in the first and second corner. Lando won his P2 solely in the second corner, without that nice pass he would have been P4.

Nope. Just run that race through in your mind. Lando would be P-3 after lap 1, even if Lewis and Max are 1 and 2.
Max would overtake hamilton easily by the time DRS is enabled. Lando and Oscar follow Hamilton around with more pace than him but cannot overtake. Simply strategy to get the Mclarens ahead. Do the opposite of Hamilton and leave 1 car out. Or pit first to force Hamilton to pit, one stays out and eithe runs longer or also pit using outlap data from the other car which shows the mclaren 2 second a lap faster on the outlap and that would be game over for Mercedes.
They were never getting on that podium under normal circumstances.

Did you watch a different race? Without the pass in turn 2 the running order would have been Ver - Pia - Ham - Nor.
And without the damage for Pia it would have stayed like this.

[ringo]

For everyone and this is why Merc elongated the stint for Ham. With pitting at the same time as Lando no way to overtake. They needed a tire delta and some Safety Car luck.
The race was simply decided in the first and second corner. Lando won his P2 solely in the second corner, without that nice pass he would have been P4.

Nope. Just run that race through in your mind. Lando would be P-3 after lap 1, even if Lewis and Max are 1 and 2.
Max would overtake hamilton easily by the time DRS is enabled. Lando and Oscar follow Hamilton around with more pace than him but cannot overtake. Simply strategy to get the Mclarens ahead. Do the opposite of Hamilton and leave 1 car out. Or pit first to force Hamilton to pit, one stays out and eithe runs longer or also pit using outlap data from the other car which shows the mclaren 2 second a lap faster on the outlap and that would be game over for Mercedes.
They were never getting on that podium under normal circumstances.

Did you watch a different race? Without the pass in turn 2 the running order would have been Ver - Pia - Ham - Nor.
And without the damage for Pia it would have stayed like this.

You did not interpret what would have happened if Lewid held P1
If Lewis held P1 into turn 1, Norris is not blocked on the outside and Max doesnt go in deep to allow Oscar to slide up the inside.
Reasonable assumption right?

Trying to figure out what would have happened if x and y did this or that has a lot of knock on effects. It' even more muddy at the start of a race and factoring 4 cars and not 2.

It was clear after turn 1 that the mclarens had the tyres switched on the W14 did not. So that makes things even worst.
The car was only good for P4 in that race.