2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Sieper]

There was no real fp1. Russell has more wing, hamilton less. So far the less wing is better, in Hamiltons hands that is. Maybe the tire deg in race wil prove different but I think Russell has the suboptimal set up. Can happen in sprint weekends, especially when there is no real fp1 as a benchmark. You go in blind.

[Hammerfist]

I agree. Late last year Hamilton used to often pip him in quali and edge him out in the races but this year and especially this weekend he is way off the pace. The gap started widening when the b spec car arrived. Feels like the new Merc car development direction suits Lewis style more. Not unlike what’s been happening at rbr for years.

Imo, the issue for George, is that he has spent his entire F1 career driving garbage cars, and getting performance out of them by driving by the seat of his pants.

The merc is a fundamentally better car this year, and driving by the seat of your pants won't get the best out of it. I'm betting driving all those crappy cars has lead to bad habbits that he needs to break!

There might be some truth to that but we must remember Russell jumped in the w11 for the first time when ham had Covid and was immediately on the pace and was on the way to winning the race before misfortune hit him. So it’s not like he can’t drive a fast car.

[ringo]

Under this conditions they should have keeping Bottas.
I can’t imagine that Russel will be a no. 1 driver when HAM retires.
Merc should keep an eye on Piastri or Norris imo

Russel is still a #1 driver. People just love to undermine Hamilton and place him in some arbritrary category amongst the other drivers.
But for the older F1 fans, Hamilton is one of the most dificult drivers to go up against. His years of battling reigning champions is grossly underestimated.
Russel can still walk into Ferrari and Redbull and beat their #1 drivers. There's no metric really that classifies Russel as poor or mediocre. The problem is he like many others simply underestimated his teammate.

[ringo]

There was no real fp1. Russell has more wing, hamilton less. So far the less wing is better, in Hamiltons hands that is. Maybe the tire deg in race wil prove different but I think Russell has the suboptimal set up. Can happen in sprint weekends, especially when there is no real fp1 as a benchmark. You go in blind.

I think it's tyre management that all. Russel just lacking the experience for fine tuning of the setup and also how to use the tyres over the lap.

However... Russel can be a problem because of how selfish he is. He wants to be #1 so badly that at any sign of being a support driver or being second best he throws his toys out of the pram and does any thing to hinder his teammate.
He's like the new Carlons Sainz only more disruptive. He doesn't know when he isnt #1.

[dans79]

There was no real fp1. Russell has more wing, hamilton less. So far the less wing is better, in Hamiltons hands that is. Maybe the tire deg in race wil prove different but I think Russell has the suboptimal set up. Can happen in sprint weekends, especially when there is no real fp1 as a benchmark. You go in blind.

true, but the head to hear results have inverted since the Monaco upgrade, and it's fairly lopsided increasing.

prior to Monaco
Qualifying
Lewis 1
George 3

Race
Lewis 3
George 2 (note he retired in australia while in front of Lewis)

Monaco onwards
Qualifying
Lewis 6
George 1

Race
Lewis 5
George 1

[AMG.Tzan]

Someone (Russell) impeding Hamilton for no reason?

Traditions…

[dans79]

There might be some truth to that but we must remember Russell jumped in the w11 for the first time when ham had Covid and was immediately on the pace and was on the way to winning the race before misfortune hit him. So it’s not like he can’t drive a fast car.

Very true, but he was fast compared to Bottas, and we all know how well Bottas did compared to Lewis in a well worked out car. It's something, because its a night and day difference between pre Monaco and Monaco onwards!

[Just_a_fan]

What's the head to head for race and quali now?

2023 H2H ( post Belgium Q)

Q - Hamilton 7-5 George Russell
R - Hamilton 8-3 George Russell


Since 2022 when Russell joined

Q - Hamilton 19-15 Russell (34 Q)
R - Hamilton 18-15 Russell (33 R)

Ok thanks.
I don't prescribe to merging years of stats as F1 is year by year. Each season is a new match and position for the season based on only its performance. Merging the years makes things look nip and tuck. Same was done vs Button. Pundits spoke of over 3 years, but that's misleading as even against Buttton, for 2 out of 3 years things weren't close but Hamilton had a horrible year when he was beaten by button.

Strangely (or not), it's only ever really done when talking about Hamilton. People started doing it with the comparison with Button, but were just trying to find excuses for their dislike of the man, it seems.

[Sieper]

There was no real fp1. Russell has more wing, hamilton less. So far the less wing is better, in Hamiltons hands that is. Maybe the tire deg in race wil prove different but I think Russell has the suboptimal set up. Can happen in sprint weekends, especially when there is no real fp1 as a benchmark. You go in blind.

true, but the head to hear results have inverted since the Monaco upgrade, and it's fairly lopsided increasing.

prior to Monaco
Qualifying
Lewis 1
George 3

Race
Lewis 3
George 2 (note he retired in australia while in front of Lewis)

Monaco onwards
Qualifying
Lewis 6
George 1

Race
Lewis 5
George 1

Agree, Hamilton is doing better and better.

[mstar]

Its a problem as i am sure Russell if there is something set-up he finds i don't think he is the kind to share all the secrets in debrief. I think his red mist and chip on his shoulder he is prepared to screw lewis and worry about the issues later. Dumb move today by russell the team had a shot at top 3 and russell screwed it

[mstar]

Well i actually like Russell but today was a d!ck move by him. He should of bailed out earlier but instead wanted to continue knowing he hinder Lewis AND then not even apologise to the team or lewis. The team could've got Lewis on the front row today without Russell's idiotic moves.

[Big Tea]

Well i actually like Russell but today was a d!ck move by him. He should of bailed out earlier but instead wanted to continue knowing he hinder lewis AND then not even apologise to the team or lewis. The team could of got lewis on front row today without Russells idiotic moves.

The team is responsible for them not having enough room, and we don't know what each knew, and the team would have. Worst case, George should have known Lewis was close behind him so he could act accordingly (if he wanted too) and Lewis should have had a few seconds more space, and been told the car in front was running off.

If all above was true, then George should be 'called into Toto's office' this after noon and had the team work ethic explained to him, and Lewis told he will have more room/warning in future.

If it was plain being a dick for the sake of it, it needs to be sorted now, not when there is a championship on the cards.

[Spoutnik]

Lewis is the number one and he's "combat proven", Russell isn't as big as him. Toto needs to settle this asap.
It's like if RB would've favoured Ricciardo after he beats Verstappen in 2017... Would've been ridiculous

[ringo]

Hamilton is at fault for not being demanding enough. It's about time he demands for #1 status. He will never do it but it maybe at the detrement of his next wdc. In fact this arguably cost him in 2021 too. Bottas was doing some randome selfish stuff in quite a few races.
His teammates just are too free to do some random stuff on track to try to save face for themselves. The team need to tell George hey it's okay you messed up, you dont have to prove to us anymore, let Lewis through for the sake of the team. Yet we have him blocking Lewid and drag racing down the backstraight.
I don't think he intentionally messed up Lewis lap. I think he is just so resistant to accepting when he is bested, that he ends up compromising the whole team by not conceding.
But the team need to give him the talk. Today was unacceptable. We dont even see this kind of canibalism in Alpine.

[Spoutnik]

Hamilton is at fault for not being demanding enough. It's about time he demands for #1 status. He will never do it but it maybe at the detrement of his next wdc. In fact this arguably cost him in 2021 too. Bottas was doing some randome selfish stuff in quite a few races.
His teammates just are too free to do some random stuff on track to try to save face for themselves. The team need to tell George hey it's okay you messed up, you dont have to prove to us anymore, let Lewis through for the sake of the team. Yet we have him blocking Lewid and drag racing down the backstraight.
I don't think he intentionally messed up Lewis lap. I think he is just so resistant to accepting when he is bested, that he ends up compromising the whole team by not conceding.
But the team need to give him the talk. Today was unacceptable. We dont even see this kind of canibalism in Alpine.

... to end up fighting for P7 in Abu Dhabi...