2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[dans79]

And it's very visible on the low fuel running, so it's in no way "bs"

I'm talking about some people on social media at least one news outlet are saying proposing are back. That's not the same thing as bouncing!

I seen enough of proposing to know when I see it. And it was there 100%. That's what they mean with "bouncing" in this case.

well Merc is in good company then, because everyone had "bouncing", including Max.


through turn 2, some before turn 6, through Pouhon, and right before the bus stop!

[Spoutnik]

Ferarri are back, but this may be a 1 off. They wont go so well at Zandvort.

As I'm arguing on the Ferrari topic (post below for those interested). I believe they're faster since Canada, not that much : - 0.2 on race pace but it's clear to me. They're just ruining this with operational disaster/bozo moments from driver. + Hamilton is very consistent.

"On race pace data both Ferrari were quicker in Montreal. If they were starting a bit higher they would've catch Hamilton surely, and probably Alonso too. Keeping in mind it's one of the three Hamilton favorite track/where he's the fastest.
In Austria, Sainz got penalized + he had a slow stop but Leclerc finished 2nd confortably, both Merc where nowhere that weekend.
In Silverstone, a track who should favor Merc and were Hamilton is the strongest historically (Hungary and Canada too). Russell spent the entire first stint not being able to overtake Leclerc, and Hamilton closed the gap to a second only at the very end of the first stint. Both Ferrari had a terrible strategy, Leclerc pitting too early, but we don't what would've happen if Leclerc would've stayed out as he was on the medium tyres while Russell was on the soft.
In Hungary, without operational disaster/Leclerc penalty, at least one of the Ferrari would've finished ahead of Russell. Hamilton starting from pole, and on his strongest track of the year wasn't reachable.
Today, Leclerc clearly managed the pace. Leclerc even catched Perez on the middle of the 2nd stint bringing down the gap to +4 seconds. Had Sainz not had a shunt in T1 he would've finished surely ahead of Russell and Alonso, and probably challenged Hamilton.

They seemed to have solved the tyre deg issue for me, and the top speed is good. The car is just a king of poor man's SF90. It share some characteristics with the Williams."

[ringo]

Yes good points.
The ferrari is faster in qualy. I can argue mercedes are about equal with them in race pace. We have seen where mercedes reel the ferrari in on tyre deg on specific tyres like the hards or mediums depending on the race. But it could be as you say operational blunders that just put the cars on the tyre too early or setup issues or poor qualifying that put them in a rough spot to be overtaken in the pits or on the road by mercedes. The ferrari seems the faster car, but its tyre degradation is the big question mark for me. This is why i cannot say how much better if at all it is than mercedes. But i would say they have seen a redbull gearbox more often than mercedes do.
Maybe my predictions on zandvort are wrong, but I am assuming the same operational blunders and a Sainz under pressure from being overtaken in points by Charles that will further continue the errors at the team.

[Spoutnik]

Yes good points.
The ferrari is faster in qualy. I can argue mercedes are about equal with them in race pace. We have seen where mercedes reel the ferrari in on tyre deg on specific tyres like the hards or mediums depending on the race. But it could be as you say operational blunders that just put the cars on the tyre too early or setup issues or poor qualifying that put them in a rough spot to be overtaken in the pits or on the road by mercedes. The ferrari seems the faster car, but its tyre degradation is the big question mark for me. This is why i cannot say how much better if at all it is than mercedes. But i would say they have seen a redbull gearbox more often than mercedes do.
Maybe my predictions on zandvort are wrong, but I am assuming the same operational blunders and a Sainz under pressure from being overtaken in points by Charles that will further continue the errors at the team.

I think Ferrari solved their tyre deg issue. You can clearly saw today Merc with Lewis with their low DF setup tried to make Ferrari stop early to cover the undercut with the idea that Ferrari would destroy her tyres, it wasn't the case.
In Silverstone, we will never now, because Ferrari create a tyre offset... against themselve by pitting Leclerc who was on harder tyre than Russell before him.
In Austria, Merc was nowhere.
In Hungary, Hamilton is very fast, always, I think without operational blunder slow stop + Leclerc penalty both Ferrair could've finished ahead of Russell.
In Canada, despite not running in clear air, both Ferrari were faster on the first stint, and much much more on the second. Had they didn't had an operational blunder in qualy they would've probably finish 2nd and 4th or 2nd and 3rd :


Also, their car is faster over one lap I believe, so even when Merc has more pace it seems (like in Hungary, or you could argue at Silverstone with the aggressive tyre startegy of Russell) you need to pass them on track, but they have the fastest top speed amongst top teams if we don't take into account RB.

[organic]

Anywhere where there is a significant rear limitation, the W14 is weaker relative to Ferrari (Bahrain, Baku, Monaco, Spa)

The opposite is true on front limited circuits (Silverstone, Barcelona, Australia, Saudi)

The weak rear end punishes at some circuits.

What's clear is that Ferrari since Canada work their tyres differently. There is no overheating there.

[Spoutnik]

Anywhere where there is a significant rear limitation, the W14 is weaker relative to Ferrari (Bahrain, Baku, Monaco, Spa)

The opposite is true on front limited circuits (Silverstone, Barcelona, Australia, Saudi)

The weak rear end punishes at some circuits.

What's clear is that Ferrari since Canada work their tyres differently. There is no overheating there.

I agree with you.
Nevertheless, the race where Merc were clearly stronger all happened at the beginning of the calendar, so it might be a calendar thing, but I believe Ferrari is developing at a much faster rate since Canada. Fortunately, they are not putting everything together every weekend.

[Spoutnik]

Just saw that Hamilton is 49 points ahead of Russell in the WDC, huge gap.

[DGP123]

Merc should be decent at Suzuka, COTA, Brazil & Zandvoort, which are more front limited.

Doubtful Russell overturns that deficit. If anything, looks likely to increase.

[dans79]

Just saw that Hamilton is 49 points ahead of Russell in the WDC, huge gap.

Lewis is closer to checko than George is to Lewis.

Lewis is now only 1 point behind Alonso!

[ringo]

Yes ferrari were faster in Canada.
I am not confident in mercedes being a clear second best.
Russel took forever to pass Stroll showing that even the Aston is still formidable.

Signs that p2 to p5 is an ugly cage match between ferrari, aston, merc and mclaren.

As for 49 points gap, at halfway mark. It's a bad time to be behind Lewis. He traditionally wakes up in the second half of the season.

We can look back over the half season and say that it has not been too bad a run for Mercedes. Both drivers pushing themselves and getting very good results. The updates have improved the car. Maybe not as much as we would have liked. But so far i would give the drivers an A and the team a B plus. Only Max has driven as well as these 2. Theyve dropped the least amount of points when taking the car's capacity into context.

[ringo]

Merc should be decent at Suzuka, COTA, Brazil & Zandvoort, which are more front limited.

Doubtful Russell overturns that deficit. If anything, looks likely to increase.

Can Hamilton win in Zandvort?!!

If the car has the strengths of the W13. I think something crazy can happen there for them.
That would be one of the biggest upsets in recent f1 history.

[dans79]

The updates have improved the car. Maybe not as much as we would have liked. But so far i would give the drivers an A and the team a B plus. Only Max has driven as well as these 2. Theyve dropped the least amount of points when taking the car's capacity into context.

I want to see how the Spa upgrades work when the teams actually has some dry Fp for set-up work!

[Willy]

I'm talking about some people on social media at least one news outlet are saying proposing are back. That's not the same thing as bouncing!

I seen enough of proposing to know when I see it. And it was there 100%. That's what they mean with "bouncing" in this case.

well Merc is in good company then, because everyone had "bouncing", including Max.


through turn 2, some before turn 6, through Pouhon, and right before the bus stop!

Onboard in the race, Lewis was heavily bouncing and none for Max.

[Spoutnik]

Merc should be decent at Suzuka, COTA, Brazil & Zandvoort, which are more front limited.

Doubtful Russell overturns that deficit. If anything, looks likely to increase.

Can Hamilton win in Zandvort?!!

If the car has the strengths of the W13. I think something crazy can happen there for them.
That would be one of the biggest upsets in recent f1 history.

I don't think Merc will be able to do anything in Zandvoort. RB will fly in S3. Max will have some extra pace being at home.
I think the S1 and S2 will suit more the McLaren.
Nobody will beat Verstappen on his home soil.

The one race where RB can be vulnerable, as I mentioned in the race thread, might be Singapore. But it thats the case it will not favor Mercedes... espcially taking into account their historic out there.

[pursue_one's]

Just saw that Hamilton is 49 points ahead of Russell in the WDC, huge gap.

Lewis is closer to checko than George is to Lewis.

Lewis is now only 1 point behind Alonso!

I know he will achieve his goals.