2023 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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Here is the thing. Otmar isn't the new guy's guy, so I see why he would want him gone.
What I don't get is if they're still shopping, why the ax so early ?

It looks like the FIA are gonna allow them to upgrade their PU too, Wonder who got that ball rolling.

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organic
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diffuser wrote:
30 Jul 2023, 13:29
Here is the thing. Otmar isn't the new guy's guy, so I see why he would want him gone.
What I don't get is if they're still shopping, why the ax so early ?

It looks like the FIA are gonna allow them to upgrade their PU too, Wonder who got that ball rolling.
Where's the scoop on FIA allowing them? Last I heard it wasn't going to happen after the commission meeting on Friday

Enstone
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We've hearing a lot about Binotto, but what about James Key ? is also free and available and he still part of the actual performances of McLaren actually, since he was involded int the dev of the MCL60 !

KimiRai
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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KimiRai
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Former team principal Marcin Budkowski interview on recent events at Alpine:

https://www.pitdebrief.com/post/former- ... management

"A team that deserves to have better management"
It's been a crazy weekend in the Formula One paddock with the news on Friday that Otmar Szafnauer and Alan Permane are leaving Alpine at the conclusion of the Belgian Grand Prix weekend.

Following the news, Alain Prost absolutely ripped into Laurent Rossi and Alpine in general when speaking to L'Equipe, describing their former CEO as inept.

"Laurent Rossi is the best example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, that of an inept manager who thinks he can overcome his incompetence with his arrogance and his lack of humanity towards his people."

"He was Alpine's boss for 18 months and thought he understood everything from the outset, yet that couldn't be further from the truth. His management stopped the momentum the team had built since 2016, achieving these podiums and that win."

Former Alpine executive director/team principal Marcin Budkowski also discussed the situation that's occurring at the Enstone-based squad right now when asked about it on Viaplay Poland.

In 2021, Esteban Ocon won the Hungarian Grand Prix under the leadership of Budkowski. It was the Enstone team's first victory since the 2013 Australian Grand Prix with Kimi Räikkönen.

The Pole admitted he spoke to Prost about what happened and that he generally agrees with what the 4-time F1 World Champion says. The two worked closely together before departing the team in January 2022.

"I will say in general that Alain and I often see things in a very similar way, so when Alain says something, I generally agree with that. I had a chat with Alain yesterday, just after I found out about the changes, so we talked yesterday morning. I read the article in the press with curiosity."

Budkowski admits he's sad about what's going on at his former team, stating the staff deserve to be under better management.

"And frankly speaking, I am sad because this is a team that is still close to me, close to my heart, it is where I spent many years, where I still know many people and have contact with them. I think it's a team that deserves better, it deserves better results and it also deserves to have better management."

The 46-year-old was then asked how long he thinks it can take a midfield team to make a breakthrough and end the Red Bull/Mercedes/Ferrari monopoly that has been the main story at the front of Formula One since the beginning of this century.

Budkowski expanded on how Renault expected big results in spite of not delivering the necessary investment required to catch the top teams. He added the board doesn't like hearing the honest truth from people such as himself or Szafnauer.

"It's like the English say, 'how long is a piece of string'? Because it's a question that depends firstly on ambition and secondly on financial capabilities.

"Unfortunately, it's not often talked about, but the main problem with Renault's involvement in Formula 1 was that the ambitions were always very high and the financial means were not adequate.

"Every year there were higher and higher ambitions, and every year, unfortunately, the resources that were put into it were not.... let's say were not at the level of those ambitions. But these are the things, let's say... that people at the Renault board didn't always want to hear.

"And when people like me or Otmar say that with these means only and with this approach it's going to be difficult to do it [win] so quickly, people [at the board] simply don't want to hear it."

On the 'mutual agreement' itself, Budkowski believes Alpine's statement is just worded that way to make it sound like Szafnauer agreed to it.

"I think the way of communicating the departure is just PR, it is a kind of elegant parting, to make it look elegant.

"Otmar is someone who has spent many years in different Formula 1 teams, who knows what it takes to win because he has been in some teams and seen what efforts are needed and how much money is spent by those teams that are winning, and how long it took. [Otmar's] approach was probably not received positively at Renault."

Alpine had a positive 2022 as they finished a strong P4 in the Constructors' Championship. However, a big jump by Aston Martin over the winter and from McLaren over the last four races has seen them drop to 6th in the standings this campaign.

Budkowski believes that's also played a role in this massive decision.

"But it also has to be said that probably Aston Martin's results this year or McLaren's results this year have also shown that it can be accelerated in a way, although you can see that Aston Martin is now falling back a little bit and McLaren has had some pluses and minuses, although it's not a linear process.

"But yes, Aston's and McLaren's results have not helped the situation at Alpine."

Slahinki
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Enstone wrote:
30 Jul 2023, 19:12
We've hearing a lot about Binotto, but what about James Key ? is also free and available and he still part of the actual performances of McLaren actually, since he was involded int the dev of the MCL60 !
James Key is going to Sauber on the 1st of September this year, so he’s not free. He also hasn’t had anything to do with the MCL60 for quite a while, the last parts to have been signed off under his leadership being the Baku floor update.

the EDGE
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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KimiRai wrote:
30 Jul 2023, 19:58
I can only think Alfa Romeo

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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the EDGE wrote:
30 Jul 2023, 20:39
KimiRai wrote:
30 Jul 2023, 19:58
I can only think Alfa Romeo
Yep
A lion must kill its prey.

Enstone
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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Slahinki wrote:
30 Jul 2023, 20:29
Enstone wrote:
30 Jul 2023, 19:12
We've hearing a lot about Binotto, but what about James Key ? is also free and available and he still part of the actual performances of McLaren actually, since he was involded int the dev of the MCL60 !
James Key is going to Sauber on the 1st of September this year, so he’s not free. He also hasn’t had anything to do with the MCL60 for quite a while, the last parts to have been signed off under his leadership being the Baku floor update.
So suddenly as he left, he has anything to do with the MCL60 developped during 2021/2022 when he was fully there :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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diffuser
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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Enstone wrote:
30 Jul 2023, 19:12
We've hearing a lot about Binotto, but what about James Key ? is also free and available and he still part of the actual performances of McLaren actually, since he was involded int the dev of the MCL60 !
Key signed with Audi. It isn't clear if Key was let go or stolen....well atleast to me.

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diffuser
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
30 Jul 2023, 21:04
the EDGE wrote:
30 Jul 2023, 20:39
KimiRai wrote:
30 Jul 2023, 19:58
I can only think Alfa Romeo
Yep
They already have Key, why not Andretti/Cadillac?

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peewon
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
31 Jul 2023, 10:09
AR3-GP wrote:
30 Jul 2023, 21:04
the EDGE wrote:
30 Jul 2023, 20:39


I can only think Alfa Romeo
Yep
They already have Key, why not Andretti/Cadillac?
Or Haas? To bring in that purified BWT money?

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diffuser
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peewon wrote:
31 Jul 2023, 15:06
diffuser wrote:
31 Jul 2023, 10:09
AR3-GP wrote:
30 Jul 2023, 21:04


Yep
They already have Key, why not Andretti/Cadillac?
Or Haas? To bring in that purified BWT money?
Well with Haas, the problem is money and I haven't heard anyone complain about Guenther Steiner. They don't even have their own equipment.

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peewon
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
31 Jul 2023, 19:19
peewon wrote:
31 Jul 2023, 15:06
diffuser wrote:
31 Jul 2023, 10:09


They already have Key, why not Andretti/Cadillac?
Or Haas? To bring in that purified BWT money?
Well with Haas, the problem is money and I haven't heard anyone complain about Guenther Steiner. They don't even have their own equipment.
Thats the biggest reason to hire him in my eyes and no teams needs money as desperately as Haas. Maybe Steiner takes a more holistic role whereas Otmar looks after the day-to-day and trackside. I don't know if you remember our conversations around him joining Alpine. I was not happy he was replacing Budkowski. You seem to give him more credit for the Force India day which I honestly wasnt plugged into too deeply to know how much of a difference he made.

All that was before the Piastri/Alonso saga which didnt enhance his reputation at all imo no matter how much netflix tried to. So, I pressume it has to be a team looking for money. Kinda weird how strong a connection he has with BWT. I wonder how that came about.

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diffuser
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Re: 2023 Alpine F1 Team

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peewon wrote:
01 Aug 2023, 04:57
diffuser wrote:
31 Jul 2023, 19:19
peewon wrote:
31 Jul 2023, 15:06


Or Haas? To bring in that purified BWT money?
Well with Haas, the problem is money and I haven't heard anyone complain about Guenther Steiner. They don't even have their own equipment.
Thats the biggest reason to hire him in my eyes and no teams needs money as desperately as Haas. Maybe Steiner takes a more holistic role whereas Otmar looks after the day-to-day and trackside. I don't know if you remember our conversations around him joining Alpine. I was not happy he was replacing Budkowski. You seem to give him more credit for the Force India day which I honestly wasnt plugged into too deeply to know how much of a difference he made.

All that was before the Piastri/Alonso saga which didnt enhance his reputation at all imo no matter how much netflix tried to. So, I pressume it has to be a team looking for money. Kinda weird how strong a connection he has with BWT. I wonder how that came about.
Well my opinion of him has changed over this year. Technically the car looks good but their not executing. The Gasly experiment has not made us forget about Alonso and Piastri. Still think Gasly should be allowed more time to improve but it's a pain they didn't need. If Alpine had Alonso and Otmar could manage the team properly, pretty sure they'd be up there with Aston in the constructors championship.