2023 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, July 28 - 30

[Cs98]

Then F1 shouldn't hold races in the wet, or they should just be led around by the safety car.
The FIA can tell from the steering inputs of a driver and footage we don't see if a driver has made
a deliberate move to push another driver off the track. The root cause of the collision was Perez's inters going off, introducing a gap most drivers would go for.

I'd be saying the same thing if Max had collided with Perez. It was a racing incident in the wet, nothing more.

The root cause of the collision was Hamilton understeering into the side of Perez. Perez gave Hamilton space on the inside and his reward for that was a big fat hole in his sidepod which ruined his race. That's a penalty, wet or dry. In fact, 5 seconds is not a hefty price for putting someone out of a race and being predominantly at fault.

I think below is a good post on twitter in giving full picture.

Pretty weak arguments really.

When two people are side by side they both have to compromise their speed and lines to fit through the corner together, that's part of racing side by side. This notion that because Hamilton wasn't on the optimal racing line he is excused of any wrongdoing is hogwash. Neither driver was on the optimal line but ultimately it was Hamilton that carried too much speed and understeered into the side of Perez. That's a penalty. Can't just understeer into people, ruin their race, and then call everything a "racing incident".

As far as the consequence shouldn't affect penalties. If you make enough contact to rip a hole in the sidepod and damage the floor I'd say you've hit someone hard enough for a penalty to be a consideration. If the stewards really wanted to penalize the consequence then they should've given something harsher than the smallest penalty available.

[Sieper]

Jolyon Palmer’s analysis of turn 1. These are a always quite good imho;

[renault rs26]

In the race both RBs were lifting heavily at unnecessary points

At eau rouge they left over 20 kph on the table each lap to Leclerc and others who of course did not coast through here..

https://i.imgur.com/uu4p2IB.jpeg

Seems this was the rb19 with its arms tied behind the back.

Perez in cooldown room said he didn't push, while Leclerc said he pushed to the end.

[organic]

In the race both RBs were lifting heavily at unnecessary points

At eau rouge they left over 20 kph on the table each lap to Leclerc and others who of course did not coast through here..

https://i.imgur.com/uu4p2IB.jpeg

Seems this was the rb19 with its arms tied behind the back.

Perez in cooldown room said he didn't push, while Leclerc said he pushed to the end.

The lifting through eau rouge and general management of the race visible in telemetry by RB is explained now:

viewtopic.php?t=30844&start=2220#p1152350

[ringo]

Karun's thoughts as an F-1 driver on the perez hamilton contact:

https://thesportsrush.com/f1-news-karun ... ega-crash/

[SiLo]

Karun's thoughts as an F-1 driver on the perez hamilton contact:

https://thesportsrush.com/f1-news-karun ... ega-crash/

He's right to be asking for consistency, that's all we want.

Genuinely incredible how Vandoorne didn't get a penalty there. For Lewis, there is plenty of precedent of the person on the inside understeering and hitting the outside driver and then getting a penalty.

[chrisc90]

Do they use the same stewards for F1 and F2 though?

[Just_a_fan]

Do they use the same stewards for F1 and F2 though?

Vandorrne's incident was in Formula E. It was a huge dive bomb that smacked in to another car, spinning it off and, I think, involving another car. Vandorrne carried on regardless. No penalty. Irrespective of what goes on in F1, a dive bomb that takes someone out is universally frowned upon, I think.

[SiLo]

Do they use the same stewards for F1 and F2 though?

The question might be better framed as do they all race to the same driving rules as F1? They are outlined by the FIA.

[chrisc90]

Do they use the same stewards for F1 and F2 though?

The question might be better framed as do they all race to the same driving rules as F1? They are outlined by the FIA.

Who knows. I don’t follow formula E, but I’d expect them to be similar to F1.

Regardless, the stewards rightfully addressed the incident in the sprint race. As with every incident, I’m sure you can go back through countless incidents and pick fault or where there was/wasn’t penalty.

[Just_a_fan]

Do they use the same stewards for F1 and F2 though?

The question might be better framed as do they all race to the same driving rules as F1? They are outlined by the FIA.

Who knows. I don’t follow formula E, but I’d expect them to be similar to F1.

Regardless, the stewards rightfully addressed the incident in the sprint race. As with every incident, I’m sure you can go back through countless incidents and pick fault or where there was/wasn’t penalty.

It wasn't about whether Hamilton deserved a penalty - plenty of opinions both ways on that one and not relevant here - but about the lack of consistency between FIA stewards across all of the FIA-sanctioned formulae and events.

If a dive bomb that takes someone out is ok in F E, why not in F1? That's the question. The answer, of course, is that it isn't acceptable in any racing series and should have been penalised in F E. That's what Chandook was getting at.

Yet again, the stewards become part of the story and that's a failure on the FIA's part. They continue to have part-time, non-professional stewards. That was great back in the day, in the 1950s and 60s when it was all good old boys and no one would have thought twice about being a cad, but today it's no longer fit for purpose.

[Cs98]

Karun's thoughts as an F-1 driver on the perez hamilton contact:

https://thesportsrush.com/f1-news-karun ... ega-crash/

He's right to be asking for consistency, that's all we want.

Genuinely incredible how Vandoorne didn't get a penalty there. For Lewis, there is plenty of precedent of the person on the inside understeering and hitting the outside driver and then getting a penalty.

This is comical, the response is so disproportionate to what has happened here. Lewis understeers into the side of someone in a sprint race, ruins their race, gets the smallest penalty available, and then we get articles "standing up" for Lewis, harping on consistency. Consistency is the punching bag for those who want to have something to complain about when they can't argue the facts of the situation at hand, which is that he caused that collision, and deserved to be penalised for it. People want consistency until they don't, then they'll start complaining the stewards are too consistent in their rulings, too stringent, not applying any racing sense and not taking into account the nuances of racing. It's just a never ending circle and the only common denominator is people who like a driver will complain regardless if the decision is correct or not. They got this one right, and it still generates articles like this, and discussions for days.

[SiLo]

Karun's thoughts as an F-1 driver on the perez hamilton contact:

https://thesportsrush.com/f1-news-karun ... ega-crash/

He's right to be asking for consistency, that's all we want.

Genuinely incredible how Vandoorne didn't get a penalty there. For Lewis, there is plenty of precedent of the person on the inside understeering and hitting the outside driver and then getting a penalty.

This is comical, the response is so disproportionate to what has happened here. Lewis understeers into the side of someone in a sprint race, ruins their race, gets the smallest penalty available, and then we get articles "standing up" for Lewis, harping on consistency. Consistency is the punching bag for those who want to have something to complain about when they can't argue the facts of the situation at hand, which is that he caused that collision, and deserved to be penalised for it. People want consistency until they don't, then they'll start complaining the stewards are too consistent in their rulings, too stringent, not applying any racing sense and not taking into account the nuances of racing. It's just a never ending circle and the only common denominator is people who like a driver will complain regardless if the decision is correct or not. They got this one right, and it still generates articles like this, and discussions for days.

If I showed you videos of both incidents and said "only one of them got a penalty" which one would you say?

Karun can ask for consistency and be correct, whilst saying it was a racing incident between Hamilton and Perez and be wrong. He's just highlighting baffling consistency of calling one but not the other, when the one that went without penalty appeared to be far worse.

I personally think they stewards have been relatively consistent on those kinds of incidents, but I wonder if it had been wheel to wheel contact if there would have been any penalty at all.

Complaining about the size of the penalty is also incorrect, the outcome does not and should not affect the punishment.

[Just_a_fan]

Karun's thoughts as an F-1 driver on the perez hamilton contact:

https://thesportsrush.com/f1-news-karun ... ega-crash/

He's right to be asking for consistency, that's all we want.

Genuinely incredible how Vandoorne didn't get a penalty there. For Lewis, there is plenty of precedent of the person on the inside understeering and hitting the outside driver and then getting a penalty.

This is comical, the response is so disproportionate to what has happened here. Lewis understeers into the side of someone in a sprint race, ruins their race, gets the smallest penalty available, and then we get articles "standing up" for Lewis, harping on consistency. Consistency is the punching bag for those who want to have something to complain about when they can't argue the facts of the situation at hand, which is that he caused that collision, and deserved to be penalised for it. People want consistency until they don't, then they'll start complaining the stewards are too consistent in their rulings, too stringent, not applying any racing sense and not taking into account the nuances of racing. It's just a never ending circle and the only common denominator is people who like a driver will complain regardless if the decision is correct or not. They got this one right, and it still generates articles like this, and discussions for days.

You're over-reacting to the wrong question. The question is "is there consistency when someone can dive bomb and take someone out and get no penalty, and someone else can have a racing incident and get a penalty?". It's not about whether Hamilton should or shouldn't have got a penalty, it's why one incident got a penalty and one that on face value was much worse, didn't.

[Cs98]

If I showed you videos of both incidents and said "only one of them got a penalty" which one would you say?

Karun can ask for consistency and be correct, whilst saying it was a racing incident between Hamilton and Perez and be wrong. He's just highlighting baffling consistency of calling one but not the other, when the one that went without penalty appeared to be far worse.

I personally think they stewards have been relatively consistent on those kinds of incidents, but I wonder if it had been wheel to wheel contact if there would have been any penalty at all.

Complaining about the size of the penalty is also incorrect, the outcome does not and should not affect the punishment.

So criticise the Vandoorne call, but there's no need to use that to falsely scrutinise a good call made in F1. "Consistency" is always the last ditch attempt to have something to complain about when you can't argue the racing situation anymore. But it's not useful to bring up a bad decision in another racing category to compare and contrast to a correct decision in F1 and cry about inconsistency. What's the point of that? You want worse decision making in F1? If anything FE fans should be bringing up the Hamilton situation as a reference for how the Vandoorne thing should have been called correctly.

Complaining about the size of the penalty is also incorrect, the outcome does not and should not affect the punishment.

I'm not complaining about the size of the penalty. I'm saying if the stewards actually went by the consequence of the collision (as so many accused them of), the penalty should probably have been bigger than 5 seconds.