Red Bull RB19

[KimiRai]

If this video is true then it kind of reminds me of this old post from another thread, without the moveable part.

The water side starts from the top of the radiator inlet downwashes almost 3/4 of sidepod and then rides into the top of the diffuser and suspension. The gradient is quite extreme, is there a possibility of the flow separating and not getting into the valley of the waterslide?

i thought of something to increase the flow from the bottom of the waterside , im sure its classed as moveble aero.
its a panel that opens up about 4mm from the radiator due to increase in air pressure and closes when stationary.

https://iili.io/HGRezMX.jpg

what are your thoughts?

[Just_a_fan]

If this video is true then it kind of reminds me of this old post from another thread, without the moveable part.

The water side starts from the top of the radiator inlet downwashes almost 3/4 of sidepod and then rides into the top of the diffuser and suspension. The gradient is quite extreme, is there a possibility of the flow separating and not getting into the valley of the waterslide?

i thought of something to increase the flow from the bottom of the waterside , im sure its classed as moveble aero.
its a panel that opens up about 4mm from the radiator due to increase in air pressure and closes when stationary.

https://iili.io/HGRezMX.jpg

what are your thoughts?

That video is "confirming" a suspicion I wrote a few days ago about that very same outlet. I asked whether it might be used to flow beneficial flow to that area. This video isn't proof - it's just supposition - but it's an interesting look at the idea.

[Just_a_fan]

Mad thought moment: could that opening be an outlet from a fluidic switch system kind of like the old f-duct was? It would have to be entirely passive with no driver input, but could it, perhaps, allow for the flow to this area to be "switched off" and thus reduce the beam wing/diffuser interaction when the DRS opens? The result could be the higher speeds seen in the Red Bull.

As I say, mad thought moment, but the f-duct was found in just that way.

[matteosc]

Mad thought moment: could that opening be an outlet from a fluidic switch system kind of like the old f-duct was? It would have to be entirely passive with no driver input, but could it, perhaps, allow for the flow to this area to be "switched off" and thus reduce the beam wing/diffuser interaction when the DRS opens? The result could be the higher speeds seen in the Red Bull.

As I say, mad thought moment, but the f-duct was found in just that way.

In theory it could be done and have reduced flow on straights (working on difference in flows between the two sides), but I am not sure how much feasible it is in practice.

[GrizzleBoy]

I've been wondering for a while now what the regulations are on routing airflow through the bodywork and where air from intakes is allowed to be routed to.

[Farnborough]

It looks like a pretty small volume outlet, and further restricted in this iteration too.

Blended along the panel as it does, suggests dispersion with minimal intervention to outside flow in conventional thinking. Possibly an effective way to vent out.

Agree with video analysis in regard to internal ducted route as possible, but appears to take pre radiator higher pressure tapping to most likely cool something in that region both independently and with consistency in cool air supply.

I'd be surprised if it's primary focus was aero performance conditioning, more like efficiency in cooling something.

[AR3-GP]

The "trick" is not to believe in tricks.

[organic]

Ferrari had an outlet in the same place with their suspension last season. But that wasn't a trick because they weren't fast enough.

This year the outlet on the ferrari is even bigger.. whilst tightening up their cannon exit + reducing louvres. So maybe the outlet here is compensating for that?



It's always the way that this sort of channel.. will use the fastest team to attempt to reach a larger audience.

Seems incredibly unlikely that this is a device other than a hot air outlet.

If they're venting air out of that outlet then they're drawing it from the inlet. So for a given amount of cooling they have to make the inlet larger. So that takes away from the amount of air going to the undercut (given they'll need a larger inlet for the same amount of cooling) and the net benefit is what? The air in this region is already fast flowing and high energy as it's clean downwashing flow due to the sidepod ramp.. it just doesn't make sense to me to sacrifice air to the undercut (which they're clearly aiming to optimise) in order to deliver a bit more air to the diffuser which they could achieve with a waterslide anyway.

Far more believable is that this is an efficient place to have an outlet because they have such fast flowing and large amounts of high energy air around it. This entrains the low energy hot air and makes the outlet very efficient & they can tighten up the rear cannon exit as a result. I don't think the flow out of that outlet is really destined for the beam wing either. If anything RB have been moving this outlet higher and higher since the rb18 launch version, to leave it in between the BW and RW (as can be seen in recent post showing migration of this outlet upwards)

Their hot outlet flows are most likely aimed to all eventually flow out around the cannon exit. It's how every team is designing their losses to be dealt with

[PlatinumZealot]

That air is actually low energy air if heat is not imparted on it by the radiators...

Scenario 1 - radiator exhaust put to use ( doubt..)
If the radiators add more heat energy than energy lost to friction and viscous losses from passing the fins (i probalby doubt this!) than the air could be worth using downstream. Historically we don't see raw radiator exhaust being used as aero injections... usually it's avoided and put in a place where it causes the least amount of trouble.

Scenario 2 - radiators + exhaust header heat
You can take the radiator heat and then add the exhaust header heat on top of that. Yes, the exhaust is shielded, but it's still appreciably hot. If this energy is enough to heat the air substantially, it could be put to use somewhere... or not.. maybe it's just as "dirty" as plain radiator exhaust. We can only know if we have a CFD of the flows from that coke bottle outlet.

[Just_a_fan]

If they're venting air out of that outlet then they're drawing it from the inlet. So for a given amount of cooling they have to make the inlet larger. So that takes away from the amount of air going to the undercut (given they'll need a larger inlet for the same amount of cooling) and the net benefit is what?

Except the RB uses a very large bottom lip on the cooling inlet that totally separates the flow to the inlet from that going to the undercut. They can change the inlet without affecting the undercut flow.

[Farnborough]

If they're venting air out of that outlet then they're drawing it from the inlet. So for a given amount of cooling they have to make the inlet larger. So that takes away from the amount of air going to the undercut (given they'll need a larger inlet for the same amount of cooling) and the net benefit is what?

Except the RB uses a very large bottom lip on the cooling inlet that totally separates the flow to the inlet from that going to the undercut. They can change the inlet without affecting the undercut flow.

Agree that the entrance is well separated for proportion of air above vs below by the leading edge sidepod design.

Also, the air entance appears to be the most effective and elegant (very efficient too) way of control for that function. Dealing only with the top side airflow for discussion purposes, at some point in speed range the internal reaches a peak that is exceeded by exterior (simple logic of the two routes) at which the entrance starts to flow more air over the top rearmost lip of the aperture. They dont need more flow internally, hence no need to bleed it out the back as conspiracy theory seems to have it on this rear vent.
This arrangement is very common on aircraft, how the air in excess of that going down the entrance aperture is dealt with effectively with minimal disturbance to the outside airflow over the top of surface.

It's usually up the other way though for aircraft engine intake, and causes lift when the entrance is slower than outside airflow. If there's a "secret/trick" that's missed by other dedigners its this aspect I believe, with at least the potential to give no lift and the possibly downward loading while doing this.
You coukd call it a "Zero" lift air entrance, see what's happened there being completely the opposite to a wing form above the significant airflow entrance that some other prominent team runs

People on the greater wide Internet seem to spend ages proffering their research of finding "tricks" when things like this are in plain sight, but they don't understand them.

[Vanja #66]

Guys, don't tell anyone, but neither the "bypass" theory (presented for the third time by the same channel btw) nor the sidepods are RB19's secret sauce

[djos]

Guys, don't tell anyone, but neither the "bypass" theory (presented for the third time by the same channel btw) nor the sidepods are RB19's secret sauce

Lol, indeed. It's pretty clear their "Philosophy" is the secret sauce - ie, not chasing peak downforce, but aiming for stable, overall usable downforce.

As they say in my industry, perfection is the enemy of good.

[KimiRai]

It's always the way that this sort of channel.. will use the fastest team to attempt to reach a larger audience.

Seems incredibly unlikely that this is a device other than a hot air outlet.

Well the guy does have an aero background and in F1 as well so that's already better credentials than most people who post here, while not trying to appeal to authority obviously, but I think that's a good enough reason to listen to what he could say and if he's wrong then people can give their opinion why they think he might be.

The "trick" is not to believe in tricks.

The fastest cars usually feature some kind of innovation or push the boundaries of the regulations more than other teams, if they didn't then they wouldn't be.

[Just_a_fan]

Guys, don't tell anyone, but neither the "bypass" theory (presented for the third time by the same channel btw) nor the sidepods are RB19's secret sauce

So...what is the secret sauce?