2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Cs98]

It gives an impression that the "Team Leader" is quite a junior role.

It may very well be a junior role, but this wouldn't preclude him from knowing how a concept works.
Unless Red Bull have a segregated aerodynamic department, which firewalls data from it's own team.
Not beyond the realms of possibility, but highly unlikely.

He will make a difference if he takes a leading role. There must be some comparison with systems, tools and culture that he can make that will help mercedes. In fact they need to hire more RB people.

How do you know? Do you even know what he did at RB?

In fact they need to hire more RB people.

Well then they should've gone after a big fish like Dan Fallows, not these junior guys. Someone you can appoint as TD like they did with Allison 6 years ago. But doesn't look like that is possible now, and Toto anyways seems unwilling to make the space within his own team to facilitate such a move.

[ValeVida46]

The too many cooks argument specifically, in relation to Mercedes, goes against historical precedent.
Geoff Willis, Bob Bell, Loic Serra, John Owen, Mike Elliott, David Jeffrey, Jarrod Murphy and the almighty Aldo Costa were all the chefs. Most were brought in around 2012, which led to the W04 jump, and then the W05.

And if you go ahead and look at the team threads from 2012, an eerily reminiscent theme emerges.

[Willy]

The too many cooks argument specifically, in relation to Mercedes, goes against historical precedent.
Geoff Willis, Bob Bell, Loic Serra, John Owen, Mike Elliott, David Jeffrey, Jarrod Murphy and the almighty Aldo Costa were all the chefs. Most were brought in around 2012, which led to the W04 jump, and then the W05.

And if you go ahead and look at the team threads from 2012, an eerily reminiscent theme emerges.

There are 2 things here. One, it was Brawn who hired them. Someone like him had absolute clarity on who is going to do what and why. Two, Those were no cost cap days. They could splash as much money as they had. I don't think Toto has either vision or that sort of clarity to put people in different positions where they all feel important and happy to do everything in their capacity to meet that vision. Obviously, cost cap doesn't allow such extravaganza anymore. Finally, too many cooks always spoil the broth. It's a reality, unless the ring master of the circus has the complete control on people and proceedings, which is extremely rare. I doubt that someone who cannot hold a headset in place under emotional duress, can be that ring master.

[ValeVida46]

Finally, too many cooks always spoil the broth.

It's not always if you're adding caveats like this...

Someone like him had absolute clarity on who is going to do what and why.

Allison is as adept as Brawn. So it's potayto/potahto.

The budget cap will certainly prevent a magnificent 7 style technical leadership, I agree.
But you could just go ahead and employ them in my view. As breaking the budget cap is met with FIA being complicit in stonewalling any details or transparency. Any transgressor can write it off under a host of excuses that will never be corroborated.

[Willy]

Finally, too many cooks always spoil the broth.

It's not always if you're adding caveats like this...

Someone like him had absolute clarity on who is going to do what and why.

Allison is as adept as Brawn. So it's potayto/potahto.

The budget cap will certainly prevent a magnificent 7 style technical leadership, I agree.
But you could just go ahead and employ them in my view. As breaking the budget cap is met with FIA being complicit in stonewalling any details or transparency. Any transgressor can write it off under a host of excuses that will never be corroborated.

I don't think you should put Allison in Brawn's category as their respective stints at Ferrari proved. Allison is a good technical guy, but I don't think he has anywhere near the man management skills of Brawn.

Its upto Mercedes to decide if they want to go rogue on cost cap. They probably have more to take care of than Fan emotions that wants them to win at all costs.

[ValeVida46]

I don't think you should put Allison in Brawn's category as their respective stints at Ferrari proved. Allison is a good technical guy, but I don't think he has anywhere near the man management skills of Brawn.

I believe Allison is as capable as Brawn, so I'll say they are comparable.

Unlike their respective stints which Brawn was one of a triumvirate. Allison came to Ferrari on the cusp of the hybrid era, with the revolving door ethos in full swing. There is no equivalent and fair comparison.
I also believe you are attributing Rory Byrne's (and Todt) qualities (and of course Schumacher)as solely Brawn's.
I'm not here to change your mind about Brawn.
What I am saying is that there is a good reason Allison was brought back into the fold at Mercedes. He knows the team, he has a great track record of success, he's looked upon with respect and he can help right away.

Its upto Mercedes to decide if they want to go rogue on cost cap. They probably have more to take care of than Fan emotions that wants them to win at all costs.

Of course it's every teams choice to break the cap or not.
The point is any team can break the rules now and place blame on some nonsense PR spiel.
And what fan of any team doesn't want to see their team win? The "at all costs" embellishment you're adding is provocative.

[Willy]

I don't think you should put Allison in Brawn's category as their respective stints at Ferrari proved. Allison is a good technical guy, but I don't think he has anywhere near the man management skills of Brawn.

I believe Allison is as capable as Brawn, so I'll say they are comparable.

Unlike their respective stints which Brawn was one of a triumvirate. Allison came to Ferrari on the cusp of the hybrid era, with the revolving door ethos in full swing. There is no equivalent and fair comparison.
I also believe you are attributing Rory Byrne's (and Todt) qualities (and of course Schumacher)as solely Brawn's.
I'm not here to change your mind about Brawn.
What I am saying is that there is a good reason Allison was brought back into the fold at Mercedes. He knows the team, he has a great track record of success, he's looked upon with respect and he can help right away.

Its upto Mercedes to decide if they want to go rogue on cost cap. They probably have more to take care of than Fan emotions that wants them to win at all costs.

Of course it's every teams choice to break the cap or not.
The point is any team can break the rules now and place blame on some nonsense PR spiel.
And what fan of any team doesn't want to see their team win? The "at all costs" embellishment you're adding is provocative.

Like I said, I have absolutely no doubt about Allison's capabilities at a technical level. I don't think anybody has. Managing multiple technical heads, which is a tedious man management job is something I don't think Allison can. I would be happy to be wrong and surprised. I like the guy and I can keep hearing him all day long when he explains technical stuff.

I would have my popcorn ready if Mercedes breaks the cost cap.

[taperoo2k]

It gives an impression that the "Team Leader" is quite a junior role.

It may very well be a junior role, but this wouldn't preclude him from knowing how a concept works.
Unless Red Bull have a segregated aerodynamic department, which firewalls data from it's own team.
Not beyond the realms of possibility, but highly unlikely.

He'll understand the development process and culture at Red Bull. Plus he's got a good level of experience in F1 through several different teams. If you have a general knowledge of the concept combined with what Mercedes have gleaned from photos etc then somebody like James Allison could probably piece together how Newey has exploited the regulations. Which is one of Newey's strengths, he'll look at a set of regulations then find the loopholes and where to push without the FIA handing down a technical directive.

As for James Allison? He is probably one of the best technical experts on the grid. Looking at the videos Mercedes have put out over the years, it looks like a well oiled machine. If there are management issues then I'd guess Wolff steps in and sorts it out. I'd put Wolff in the same category as Brawn in terms of team leadership. Wolff doesn't have the technical prowess of Brawn of course. Brawn built the foundations at Mercedes and Wolff built the house so to speak.

[hollus]

Why are the last pages about what other teams (mostly you know which) are doing, not doing or should do?

This is F1T, we aspire to a slightly higher discussion standard. If your focus is not on the tech, not on the team, but on defeating your biggest rival (team or poster), I suggest going to autosport, reddit, twitter or whererver that is welcome.

Warnings have started to be given for deliberate derailings and deliberate bickering.

[Stu]

TD045 discussion has been moved to a fresh thread

[AR3-GP]

Wolff has fractured his elbow on vacation, nothing too serious: https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... mer-break/

[denyall]

Wolff has fractured his elbow on vacation, nothing too serious: https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... mer-break/

Headphones across the world rejoice

[Wouter]

Wolff sustains injury over F1 summer break

It's perhaps not the summer break that Toto Wolff was expecting to have away from F1.
Toto Wolff has sustained an injury to his arm during the Formula 1 summer break.

The Mercedes Team Principal appeared in a photo posted by wife and former Williams F1 development driver Susie Wolff, wearing a cast around his left arm after fracturing his elbow while downhill mountain biking.

He picked up the injury on the Monday immediately following the Belgian Grand Prix, but appeared to be in good spirits and unhurt by the accident.

Wolff is expected to make a full recovery once F1 gets back underway in the Netherlands at the end of August.

This is the second time Wolff has been injured in a cycling accident, after he fractured his elbow, shoulder, collarbone, and wrist during an accident along the Danube River in Hungary in 2014.

.
Last photo is about Toto.

[AR3-GP]

Wolff has fractured his elbow on vacation, nothing too serious: https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... mer-break/

Headphones across the world rejoice

I was also worried that he wouldn’t be able to sign Hamilton’s contract

[PlatinumZealot]

The too many cooks argument specifically, in relation to Mercedes, goes against historical precedent.
Geoff Willis, Bob Bell, Loic Serra, John Owen, Mike Elliott, David Jeffrey, Jarrod Murphy and the almighty Aldo Costa were all the chefs. Most were brought in around 2012, which led to the W04 jump, and then the W05.

And if you go ahead and look at the team threads from 2012, an eerily reminiscent theme emerges.

There are 2 things here. One, it was Brawn who hired them. Someone like him had absolute clarity on who is going to do what and why. Two, Those were no cost cap days. They could splash as much money as they had. I don't think Toto has either vision or that sort of clarity to put people in different positions where they all feel important and happy to do everything in their capacity to meet that vision. Obviously, cost cap doesn't allow such extravaganza anymore. Finally, too many cooks always spoil the broth. It's a reality, unless the ring master of the circus has the complete control on people and proceedings, which is extremely rare. I doubt that someone who cannot hold a headset in place under emotional duress, can be that ring master.

I have to back Vale Vida on this! Again didn't you see Mercedes 2014 proving that too many cooks is not an issue. They weren't making broth after all!!

What's happening with Mercedes now is brain drain and others catching up.