F1 Energy store density for 2026 and hot swap batteries

[chaoticflounder]

Speaking of battery design, are battery and cell development open for the 2026 regs? I would have thought that would be quite appealing for the OEM backed teams to support, imagine that would be seen as money well spent. Thoughts?

[wuzak]

Speaking of battery design, are battery and cell development open for the 2026 regs? I would have thought that would be quite appealing for the OEM backed teams to support, imagine that would be seen as money well spent. Thoughts?

No, only FIA approved cells.

[gruntguru]

Hmm not really. As i said, depends on the pace each MJ can unleash over a lap, above the normal electrical deployment, current battery capcity and how quickly you can swap a battery in a pitstop.

It may not need to have much more battery density than what we have now... The ever immiment solid state battery tech might coincide with 2026.

Present lithium battery technology sits at about 350 Whr/kg so a 350 kW formula car will need a 1000kg battery to run for 1 hour.
2 hours - 2000 kg
2 hours @ 700 kW - 4000 kg.

Batteries in the laboratory are about twice as good, so perhaps F1 could get that down to a 2 ton battery.

[Zynerji]

Hmm not really. As i said, depends on the pace each MJ can unleash over a lap, above the normal electrical deployment, current battery capcity and how quickly you can swap a battery in a pitstop.

It may not need to have much more battery density than what we have now... The ever immiment solid state battery tech might coincide with 2026.

Present lithium battery technology sits at about 350 Whr/kg so a 350 kW formula car will need a 1000kg battery to run for 1 hour.
2 hours - 2000 kg
2 hours @ 700 kW - 4000 kg.

Batteries in the laboratory are about twice as good, so perhaps F1 could get that down to a 2 ton battery.

Agreed. Until the teams come up with an aerogel-like battery technology that they can house in the honeycomb spaces of the chassis layup, it's just going to be too heavy, IMHO.

[wuzak]

The idea is that once there is a large enough battery capacity and a net charging deficit over the race, there is a cross-over point where swapping the battery during a pit stop can give a shorter race time.

That day is a very long way away.

Hmm not really. As i said, depends on the pace each MJ can unleash over a lap, above the normal electrical deployment, current battery capcity and how quickly you can swap a battery in a pitstop.

It may not need to have much more battery density than what we have now... The ever immiment solid state battery tech might coincide with 2026.

It doesn't matter about battery technology.

It's all about the rules.

At least until 2035 F1 will use an ICE with ERS to recovery energy normally lost during braking (and when burning fuel too, apparently).

There is unlikely to be a scenario where the battery in an F1 car will provide more than a few seconds at full power, and that the battery will be allowed to recharge, by whatever means, in a pit stop.

Formula E now uses charging during races, and no sight of swappable batteries.

[wuzak]

Hmm not really. As i said, depends on the pace each MJ can unleash over a lap, above the normal electrical deployment, current battery capcity and how quickly you can swap a battery in a pitstop.

It may not need to have much more battery density than what we have now... The ever immiment solid state battery tech might coincide with 2026.

Present lithium battery technology sits at about 350 Whr/kg so a 350 kW formula car will need a 1000kg battery to run for 1 hour.
2 hours - 2000 kg
2 hours @ 700 kW - 4000 kg.

Batteries in the laboratory are about twice as good, so perhaps F1 could get that down to a 2 ton battery.

You're saying 350kWh battery for a 1 hour race? Obviously 1 hour at full power.

Energy recovery will obviously help that, as will slow, tight tracks where maximum power can't be used all the time and the chance for energy recovery is better.

Formual E has 350kW discharge from rear wheels and 600kW recovery (250kW front and 350kW rear) for a race that lasts approximately 45 minutes.

The Formula E battery weighs 284kg with 51kWh capacity.

[gruntguru]

Thanks Wuzak. That FE battery works out at 180 Wh/kg. I guess that is the complete pack including cooling and structure, so quite a bit heavier than the cells alone.

[wuzak]

Forgot to say, FE has recharging now, so the 51kWh battery pack doesn't last the whole race.

[wuzak]

Forgot to say, FE has recharging now, so the 51kWh battery pack doesn't last the whole race.

[mzso]

Present lithium battery technology sits at about 350 Whr/kg so a 350 kW formula car will need a 1000kg battery to run for 1 hour.
2 hours - 2000 kg
2 hours @ 700 kW - 4000 kg.

Batteries in the laboratory are about twice as good, so perhaps F1 could get that down to a 2 ton battery.

That calculation couldn't be more naive... As if motors are constantly working at their peak power, and re-gen doesn't exist.

Agreed. Until the teams come up with an aerogel-like battery technology that they can house in the honeycomb spaces of the chassis layup, it's just going to be too heavy, IMHO.

That's that's mutually exclusive with reality. Material makes a battery, and most of an aerogel is air.

[mzso]

At least until 2035 F1 will use an ICE with ERS to recovery energy

Did a crystal ball tell you that?

[wuzak]

At least until 2035 F1 will use an ICE with ERS to recovery energy

Did a crystal ball tell you that?

Formula E has exclusive rights to open wheel electric racing cars until then, or later (may be 2037).

And the 2026 rules have homologation schedule to 2030.

[mzso]

At least until 2035 F1 will use an ICE with ERS to recovery energy

Did a crystal ball tell you that?

Formula E has exclusive rights to open wheel electric racing cars until then, or later (may be 2037).

And the 2026 rules have homologation schedule to 2030.

The info we have on that is on a rumor level. We don't know any details, if any.
As for the other. 2030 is not 2035. Hell, the 2026 regs are not even set in stone yet.

[Zynerji]

Present lithium battery technology sits at about 350 Whr/kg so a 350 kW formula car will need a 1000kg battery to run for 1 hour.
2 hours - 2000 kg
2 hours @ 700 kW - 4000 kg.

Batteries in the laboratory are about twice as good, so perhaps F1 could get that down to a 2 ton battery.

That calculation couldn't be more naive... As if motors are constantly working at their peak power, and re-gen doesn't exist.

Agreed. Until the teams come up with an aerogel-like battery technology that they can house in the honeycomb spaces of the chassis layup, it's just going to be too heavy, IMHO.

That's that's mutually exclusive with reality. Material makes a battery, and most of an aerogel is air.

Sometimes, I wonder if my humor is really that hard to understand. My point was -exactly- that it would never happen by being overly obviously ridiculous...

[wuzak]

Did a crystal ball tell you that?

Formula E has exclusive rights to open wheel electric racing cars until then, or later (may be 2037).

And the 2026 rules have homologation schedule to 2030.

The info we have on that is on a rumor level. We don't know any details, if any.
As for the other. 2030 is not 2035. Hell, the 2026 regs are not even set in stone yet.

The 2026 rules are set enough that 6 manufacturers are deep in development for their power units.

If there are changes it is more likely to be a tweak to the fuel flow, a change to how much energy can be recovered per lap, a change to how much power the MGUK deploys.

No chance that the batteries will be changed for ones that can last several laps, and certainly won't change to allow recharging or changing of the battery at pit stops.

The hot swapped battery idea has always seemed to me to be more suited to EVs than a hybrids.