2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Cs98]

Good information and many good points. I've seen him say much of the same regarding their engine development previously.

If you then need 30 liters of fuel just to charge the battery, then something is wrong in terms of approach.

Couldn't put it better myself.

[Juzh]

In this whole 2026 engine debate only RB personnel are talking sense, because in current year 2023 it seems they're the only true racing team left on the grid. Mercedes and toto are far gone and even ferrari seems to have fallen in the EV rabbit hole. That's the only reason why the 50 50 split is being pushed so hard, it's for political "correctness", marketing and shareholder responsibility only, otherwise it makes absolutely zero practical sense from a racing standpoint.
Reading 2026 engine thread and what kind of formula we're heading into sends shivers down my spine.

[Henri]

https://www-motorsport--magazin-com.tra ... r_hl=en-US
So marko still wants a hierarchy code word for number 1 driver status.. but would give norris a seat but not Lewis if they kick out perez... newey always wanted Lewis to drive his cars in 2011 they talked at his house... a max + Lewis in tge same team would be boz office

[organic]

https://www-motorsport--magazin-com.tra ... r_hl=en-US
So marko still wants a hierarchy code word for number 1 driver status.. but would give norris a seat but not Lewis if they kick out perez... newey always wanted Lewis to drive his cars in 2011 they talked at his house... a max + Lewis in tge same team would be boz office

We know they've tried to sign Norris multiple times in the past few years, so it's not a surprise that Marko is into the idea. I've got no clue who they'll end up with or what sort of driver they even want at this point. Do they see their advantage over the field continuing? In which case a driver like a Perez/Ricciardo will work for WCC. They have a lot of options given that almost any driver would be up for the drive

With hindsight, the only way we would ever have had Max-Hamilton driver combo is if Max had joined Merc's driver academy prior to accepting Marko's Toro Rosso seat. Imagine those two duking it out in the W11, lapping the field. Box office indeed

[Wouter]

[Just_a_fan]

https://www-motorsport--magazin-com.tra ... r_hl=en-US
So marko still wants a hierarchy code word for number 1 driver status.. but would give norris a seat but not Lewis if they kick out perez... newey always wanted Lewis to drive his cars in 2011 they talked at his house... a max + Lewis in tge same team would be boz office

He wants a fast number not-1 but not too fast a number not-1. No surprises there, really.

And it shows that Marko, at least, still sees Hamilton as a direct threat to Max. Which is interesting when one considers some of the stuff written on this forum recently about "old man Hamilton".

[Henri]

https://www-motorsport--magazin-com.tra ... r_hl=en-US
So marko still wants a hierarchy code word for number 1 driver status.. but would give norris a seat but not Lewis if they kick out perez... newey always wanted Lewis to drive his cars in 2011 they talked at his house... a max + Lewis in tge same team would be boz office

We know they've tried to sign Norris multiple times in the past few years, so it's not a surprise that Marko is into the idea. I've got no clue who they'll end up with or what sort of driver they even want at this point. Do they see their advantage over the field continuing? In which case a driver like a Perez/Ricciardo will work for WCC. They have a lot of options given that almost any driver would be up for the drive

With hindsight, the only way we would ever have had Max-Hamilton driver combo is if Max had joined Merc's driver academy prior to accepting Marko's Toro Rosso seat. Imagine those two duking it out in the W11, lapping the field. Box office indeed

Norris should have taken the seat or was he scared of max ?

[Just_a_fan]

https://www-motorsport--magazin-com.tra ... r_hl=en-US
So marko still wants a hierarchy code word for number 1 driver status.. but would give norris a seat but not Lewis if they kick out perez... newey always wanted Lewis to drive his cars in 2011 they talked at his house... a max + Lewis in tge same team would be boz office

We know they've tried to sign Norris multiple times in the past few years, so it's not a surprise that Marko is into the idea. I've got no clue who they'll end up with or what sort of driver they even want at this point. Do they see their advantage over the field continuing? In which case a driver like a Perez/Ricciardo will work for WCC. They have a lot of options given that almost any driver would be up for the drive

With hindsight, the only way we would ever have had Max-Hamilton driver combo is if Max had joined Merc's driver academy prior to accepting Marko's Toro Rosso seat. Imagine those two duking it out in the W11, lapping the field. Box office indeed

Norris should have taken the seat or was he scared of max ?

"Scared of Max"? Why? If he's not fast enough then he's not fast enough but importantly for Norris, he'd need to know that the team would give him equal billing so he could try. However, the team operates a No.1 / No.2 system - they did it with Vettel and they're doing it with Max (just as Marko confirmed). No driver that considers himself good enough to take the title (as no doubt Norris does), would put himself in a team where he knows from day 1 that the team will give his team mate preferential treatment. That's not fear, it's simple common sense.

[Cs98]

We know they've tried to sign Norris multiple times in the past few years, so it's not a surprise that Marko is into the idea. I've got no clue who they'll end up with or what sort of driver they even want at this point. Do they see their advantage over the field continuing? In which case a driver like a Perez/Ricciardo will work for WCC. They have a lot of options given that almost any driver would be up for the drive

With hindsight, the only way we would ever have had Max-Hamilton driver combo is if Max had joined Merc's driver academy prior to accepting Marko's Toro Rosso seat. Imagine those two duking it out in the W11, lapping the field. Box office indeed

Norris should have taken the seat or was he scared of max ?

"Scared of Max"? Why? If he's not fast enough then he's not fast enough but importantly for Norris, he'd need to know that the team would give him equal billing so he could try. However, the team operates a No.1 / No.2 system - they did it with Vettel and they're doing it with Max (just as Marko confirmed). No driver that considers himself good enough to take the title (as no doubt Norris does), would put himself in a team where he knows from day 1 that the team will give his team mate preferential treatment. That's not fear, it's simple common sense.

If he's fast enough to assert himself in the team he will be treated as an equal. If not he will be treated like Perez. That is a guy who is given equal material to score results but isn't considered the main contender within the team because of their own lackluster performance.

[chrisc90]

Didnt Christian come out and say they favour the guy who is leading the points? He did say that Max and Perez were allowed to fight in the early stages of the season.

If Perez had Max's points and vice versa - I could see the orders favouring the leading driver. I mean totally irrelevant as Max will clean up both the WDC and WCC by himself as he's just that good.

[Sieper]

We know they've tried to sign Norris multiple times in the past few years, so it's not a surprise that Marko is into the idea. I've got no clue who they'll end up with or what sort of driver they even want at this point. Do they see their advantage over the field continuing? In which case a driver like a Perez/Ricciardo will work for WCC. They have a lot of options given that almost any driver would be up for the drive

With hindsight, the only way we would ever have had Max-Hamilton driver combo is if Max had joined Merc's driver academy prior to accepting Marko's Toro Rosso seat. Imagine those two duking it out in the W11, lapping the field. Box office indeed

Norris should have taken the seat or was he scared of max ?

"Scared of Max"? Why? If he's not fast enough then he's not fast enough but importantly for Norris, he'd need to know that the team would give him equal billing so he could try. However, the team operates a No.1 / No.2 system - they did it with Vettel and they're doing it with Max (just as Marko confirmed). No driver that considers himself good enough to take the title (as no doubt Norris does), would put himself in a team where he knows from day 1 that the team will give his team mate preferential treatment. That's not fear, it's simple common sense.

Why are you always pushing your agenda? Marko has not confirmed a no1 system at all. They just don’t want drivers who are always fighting. Lewis and everyone else who is as fast or faster means a guaranteed bitter struggle.

Norris is very fast too. According to these numbers faster then Lewis the last two years;

https://f1-analysis.com/

A bit flattered by his (lack off) team mate history but still. IMHO quite a nice number games effort. In any case, Norris is fast and redbull would hire him. They have also stated team orders are not in order, and I have never heard the ‘Valterri, please let lewis through’ equivalent from Horner.

[Just_a_fan]

Norris should have taken the seat or was he scared of max ?

"Scared of Max"? Why? If he's not fast enough then he's not fast enough but importantly for Norris, he'd need to know that the team would give him equal billing so he could try. However, the team operates a No.1 / No.2 system - they did it with Vettel and they're doing it with Max (just as Marko confirmed). No driver that considers himself good enough to take the title (as no doubt Norris does), would put himself in a team where he knows from day 1 that the team will give his team mate preferential treatment. That's not fear, it's simple common sense.

If he's fast enough to assert himself in the team he will be treated as an equal. If not he will be treated like Perez. That is a guy who is given equal material to score results but isn't considered the main contender within the team because of their own lackluster performance.

As Marko says in his interview, having a team mate that doesn't cause problems is what they want. Perez doesn't cause problems precisely because, whilst he can be quick on his day, he isn't a monster of consistency that the best drivers are - Max is nothing if not consistently fast. Even on a "bad day" Max is still fast where Perez throws it at the scenery. Ask Rosberg how difficult it is to compete with someone that is consistently fast and rarely makes a mistake. Max is showing Perez how difficult that is, and kudos to Max for that.

But Red Bull do operate a 1 / 2 system - Marko confirms it. And to get the No.1 off the de facto guy means being better from day one for the entire season and few people can manage that. And even if you do do it, you can't have a bad day or the team will be behind the other guy straight away. That's almost impossible. Indeed, it probably is impossible - no one is perfect every race when under pressure, not even Max.

I'm reminded of Coulthard admitting that he knows now that he wasn't good enough to have competed with Michael for a whole season, but at the time he turned down a Ferrari offer, he did it because he didn't want to be contractually No.2 to Michael. He knows now how silly that was. Maybe that's where Norris is now, or maybe Norris believes he can win the title and doesn't want to fight a team mate for the chance. You'd have to ask Norris.

[Just_a_fan]

Norris should have taken the seat or was he scared of max ?

"Scared of Max"? Why? If he's not fast enough then he's not fast enough but importantly for Norris, he'd need to know that the team would give him equal billing so he could try. However, the team operates a No.1 / No.2 system - they did it with Vettel and they're doing it with Max (just as Marko confirmed). No driver that considers himself good enough to take the title (as no doubt Norris does), would put himself in a team where he knows from day 1 that the team will give his team mate preferential treatment. That's not fear, it's simple common sense.

Why are you always pushing your agenda? Marko has not confirmed a no1 system at all. They just don’t want drivers who are always fighting. Lewis and everyone else who is as fast or faster means a guaranteed bitter struggle.

Norris is very fast too. According to these numbers faster then Lewis the last two years;

https://f1-analysis.com/

A bit flattered by his (lack off) team mate history but still. IMHO quite a nice number games effort. In any case, Norris is fast and redbull would hire him. They have also stated team orders are not in order, and I have never heard the ‘Valterri, please let lewis through’ equivalent from Horner.

I don't have an agenda - we're discussing why certain drivers might have chosen not to drive for Red Bull whilst Max is there in the de facto number 1 driver position.

And, yes, Marko said it:

An important part for the Red Bull motorsport consultant: the hierarchy within the team. "It's better if you have a certain hierarchy where it's clear who is - I don't want to say number 1 driver, but who is clearly faster."

He doesn't want to call it number 1 but they want two drivers who are clearly not on the same level. That's No.1 and No.2 by any reasonable definition.

I don't see why you're upset about it - it's what Ferrari did when they won titles with Michael, and it's what Red Bull obviously chose to mimic. And it does mean you have less stress as a manager of the team. A sensible approach from the team's perspective.

As for the Valterri comment - we saw Lewis and Valterri swap and swap back - something that Max has refused to do to help his team mate. Not that it is relevant to anything, but you brought it up. When you are fighting for a title against another team, team orders are sometimes needed - I don't think anyone has an issue with that. Team orders have been part of F1 from the very beginning, after all.

[Stu]

This is starting to push the boundaries of being about the RB team. Hypotheticals about driver pairings??

[Cs98]

As Marko says in his interview, having a team mate that doesn't cause problems is what they want. Perez doesn't cause problems precisely because, whilst he can be quick on his day, he isn't a monster of consistency that the best drivers are - Max is nothing if not consistently fast. Even on a "bad day" Max is still fast where Perez throws it at the scenery. Ask Rosberg how difficult it is to compete with someone that is consistently fast and rarely makes a mistake. Max is showing Perez how difficult that is, and kudos to Max for that.

But Red Bull do operate a 1 / 2 system - Marko confirms it. And to get the No.1 off the de facto guy means being better from day one for the entire season and few people can manage that. And even if you do do it, you can't have a bad day or the team will be behind the other guy straight away. That's almost impossible. Indeed, it probably is impossible - no one is perfect every race when under pressure, not even Max.

I'm reminded of Coulthard admitting that he knows now that he wasn't good enough to have competed with Michael for a whole season, but at the time he turned down a Ferrari offer, he did it because he didn't want to be contractually No.2 to Michael. He knows now how silly that was. Maybe that's where Norris is now, or maybe Norris believes he can win the title and doesn't want to fight a team mate for the chance. You'd have to ask Norris.

Nah, he doesn't confirm anything of the sort. You are simply trying to conflate a contractual nr 1 driver (like Ferrari used to operate) and someone who is an unofficial nr 1 because they're better and the team thus believes in them. It's the Hamilton/Bottas dynamic. Perez gets the same car, same upgrades, same chance to compete every season. The problem is he just can't keep up and becomes an afterthought after like 5 or 6 races. Contractually speaking he can win. But to win he has to make the team believe in him, and you can't do that by missing Q3 5 races in a row.