Electric wheel guns

[DiogoBrand]

The incident today with Perez sort of running over Ferrari's pit crew gear got me thinking:
Are electric wheel guns viable in F1?

I mean, with all the PR talk about F1 getting more eco friendly, wouldn't this be a positive change?

I don't know the specs of the current equipment, like torque and all that stuff, and I'm aware that it would most likely result in heavier, slower guns and increase stop times, but if it is the same for everyone, then why not?

It would cut down on costs by not having a large amount of equipment for each pit crew to power the 4 guns with pressurized air that they have to transport, assemble and disassemble for each grand prix, as well as uncluttering the pit lane.

Unless of course there is some specification on the way that the wheel guns work that electric equipment cannot fulfill, in which case I'd like if someone could clarify.

[JordanMugen]

Are electric wheel guns viable in F1?

Yes, they are viable. Formula 2 already use electric wheel guns. For example, from yesterday's feature race:

[mendis]

You are taking about battery operated Wheel guns, instead of corded electric wheel guns.

[JordanMugen]

You are taking about battery operated Wheel guns, instead of corded electric wheel guns.

In a lot of mechanical workshops, battery-operated electric impact wrenches seem to be replacing pneumatic impact wrenches as the favoured impact tool of mechanics.

I hadn't considered corded electric impact wrenches until recently, they don't seem very common. I'm guessing they combine the worst of both worlds so are not favoured -- the inconvenience of a cord, without the (presumably superior) power of an air-operated impact wrench?

However, a quick Google seems to suggest that electric impact wrenches do not exist in 1" drive or 3/4" drive in cordless form, but only in corded form. This would suggest that corded electric impact wrenches are more suitable for heavy work.

The Formula 2 teams must be using some kind of 1/2" drive cordless impact wrench that is particularly suitable for the job (speed, of course, being the number one consideration!), unless I am mistaken (which is very likely!).

...What is the torque value for a Formula 1 or Formula 2 single wheel nut by the way?

[DiogoBrand]

Are electric wheel guns viable in F1?

Yes, they are viable. Formula 2 already use electric wheel guns. For example, from yesterday's feature race:

https://i.imgur.com/ftsoXql.jpg

Didn't know about that. So that answers my question.
(BTW by electric I meant battery powered)

[mzso]

The incident today with Perez sort of running over Ferrari's pit crew gear got me thinking:
Are electric wheel guns viable in F1?

I mean, with all the PR talk about F1 getting more eco friendly, wouldn't this be a positive change?

I don't know the specs of the current equipment, like torque and all that stuff, and I'm aware that it would most likely result in heavier, slower guns and increase stop times, but if it is the same for everyone, then why not?

It would cut down on costs by not having a large amount of equipment for each pit crew to power the 4 guns with pressurized air that they have to transport, assemble and disassemble for each grand prix, as well as uncluttering the pit lane.

Unless of course there is some specification on the way that the wheel guns work that electric equipment cannot fulfill, in which case I'd like if someone could clarify.

I often think that it's rather stupid to drag a pneumatic gear out and back. And a bit of a safety hazard as well.

Besides they're already using battery-electric impact wrenches, when changing tires within the boxes. You can see them all the time during sessions. Pneumatic wrenches are only used during pit stops.

I'm sure readily available ones are not as fast, or some other way inferior. But I'm sure they can afford to customize or design better ones if the FIA bans pneumatic tools.

[Just_a_fan]

I often think that it's rather stupid to drag a pneumatic gear out and back. And a bit of a safety hazard as well.

Besides they're already using battery-electric impact wrenches, when changing tires within the boxes. You can see them all the time during sessions. Pneumatic wrenches are only used during pit stops.

I'm sure readily available ones are not as fast, or some other way inferior. But I'm sure they can afford to customize or design better ones if the FIA bans pneumatic tools.

Quite apart from the safety aspect, there's a transport issue too. The kit is all big and heavy and needs to be shipped around the world. For a sport trying to be "green", surely a standardised cordless electric device would be much more "on message".

Or how about a wheel brace and torque wrench? That'd slow the pit stops down a bit.

[basti313]

I'm sure readily available ones are not as fast, or some other way inferior. But I'm sure they can afford to customize or design better ones if the FIA bans pneumatic tools.

Yes, the current tuned wheel guns they use running on Nitrogen are faster. Not much, but surely much faster than you could afford to leave on the ground. In F2 with less tuned, I think even spec wheel guns they are talking about fractions of a second, for F1 I would read from this that it may be up to a second if they use the simple electric wheel guns from F2.

For me it does not make any difference if they need a second more. For me the big benefit is that the pit lane is much cleaner. With all the pneumatic stuff above the car gone you would simply see a little bit more of the pitstop, it would look a bit nicer.
Plus it makes the pitstop more save, not just because the hoses are gone, but also because the longer screwing phase is more controllable for the mechanic.

The big issue might be the hub itself. We have seen when performance pitstops are done on GT3 cars, the different hubs play a big role. This led to the issue in DTM that they could not change to less powerfull guns as that would increase the time difference between the hubs. I guess this might also be an issue in F1 and might even lead to dangerous developments on the hubs, it would simply suddenly make shorter threads and less friction even more attractive. I am not sure if they are enough specified in the rules for a change to slower wheel guns.

[Zynerji]

Need guns made by Paslode...

[Big Tea]

I'm sure readily available ones are not as fast, or some other way inferior. But I'm sure they can afford to customize or design better ones if the FIA bans pneumatic tools.

Yes, the current tuned wheel guns they use running on Nitrogen are faster. Not much, but surely much faster than you could afford to leave on the ground. In F2 with less tuned, I think even spec wheel guns they are talking about fractions of a second, for F1 I would read from this that it may be up to a second if they use the simple electric wheel guns from F2.

For me it does not make any difference if they need a second more. For me the big benefit is that the pit lane is much cleaner. With all the pneumatic stuff above the car gone you would simply see a little bit more of the pitstop, it would look a bit nicer.
Plus it makes the pitstop more save, not just because the hoses are gone, but also because the longer screwing phase is more controllable for the mechanic.

The big issue might be the hub itself. We have seen when performance pitstops are done on GT3 cars, the different hubs play a big role. This led to the issue in DTM that they could not change to less powerfull guns as that would increase the time difference between the hubs. I guess this might also be an issue in F1 and might even lead to dangerous developments on the hubs, it would simply suddenly make shorter threads and less friction even more attractive. I am not sure if they are enough specified in the rules for a change to slower wheel guns.

If they were standardised, speed would not be an issue as it would be the same for all.

[michl420]

Intersting suggestion. If compressed air or a chemical batterie is more "green", I don't know. But please do not standardize it, I want competition.

[Big Tea]

Intersting suggestion. If compressed air or a chemical batterie is more "green", I don't know. But please do not standardize it, I want competition.

Surely the wheel gun can be no different? it has to fit a standard 'nut' and apply a standard torque.
There may be a little weight to play with but it would be grams

[michl420]

Intersting suggestion. If compressed air or a chemical batterie is more "green", I don't know. But please do not standardize it, I want competition.

Surely the wheel gun can be no different? it has to fit a standard 'nut' and apply a standard torque.
There may be a little weight to play with but it would be grams

I think a pneumatic or a electric wheel gun will feel different. But thats not the point and I as a fan would have no problem with it. Maybe a batterie would be to havy for this power. But as I say, I want competiton from the hardware side and from the mechanic group side in a pit stop.

[mzso]

Yes, the current tuned wheel guns they use running on Nitrogen are faster. Not much, but surely much faster than you could afford to leave on the ground. In F2 with less tuned, I think even spec wheel guns they are talking about fractions of a second, for F1 I would read from this that it may be up to a second if they use the simple electric wheel guns from F2.

For me it does not make any difference if they need a second more. For me the big benefit is that the pit lane is much cleaner. With all the pneumatic stuff above the car gone you would simply see a little bit more of the pitstop, it would look a bit nicer.
Plus it makes the pitstop more save, not just because the hoses are gone, but also because the longer screwing phase is more controllable for the mechanic.

The big issue might be the hub itself. We have seen when performance pitstops are done on GT3 cars, the different hubs play a big role. This led to the issue in DTM that they could not change to less powerfull guns as that would increase the time difference between the hubs. I guess this might also be an issue in F1 and might even lead to dangerous developments on the hubs, it would simply suddenly make shorter threads and less friction even more attractive. I am not sure if they are enough specified in the rules for a change to slower wheel guns.

I can't see why they couldn't/shouldn't tune/enhance electric wheelguns. I wouldn't think they can waste that much so it becomes a budget cap concern. No reason to not match the performance of pneumatic ones.

Plus there's a clear way to increase performance. In place of a common radial flux motor, they can stack radial flux motors in there. If a better power to weight ratio is needed.
If they really want to go the extra mile, they can replace copper with lighter aluminium in the windings. Use some exotic core instead of an iron core, etc.

[mzso]

Surely the wheel gun can be no different? it has to fit a standard 'nut' and apply a standard torque.
There may be a little weight to play with but it would be grams

As far as I know there's no standard nut. They all have their own nuts and guns modified from the same supplier.

I think a pneumatic or a electric wheel gun will feel different. But thats not the point and I as a fan would have no problem with it. Maybe a batterie would be to havy for this power. But as I say, I want competiton from the hardware side and from the mechanic group side in a pit stop.

While I don't think it would have much significance, it would be more interesting to see different wheel gun designs.