2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[ringo]

Get Danny in the RB seat and he will beat Max comfortably. Should make it interesting having a inter-team battle.

Either that or Max will run rings round Danny...which I think is what would happen.

You are joking right?
Danny Ric got worst when he left. Maybe distracted by his antics outside of the car.
I think he can only beat Max if he is as focused as Max.
Max will destroy him. The only way that doesnt happen is if as we have seen in the past the Redbull cars are like sunlight to superman for the redbull drivers and they look more complete in them when compared to driving another car.
Danny may well dip into the performance enhancing drug that is a redbull car and look imperious again. I doubt he will beat Max, but i do not think it will be a one sided show. He would give Max trouble. And for that reason Redbull will keep Checo.

[chrisc90]

Get Danny in the RB seat and he will beat Max comfortably. Should make it interesting having a inter-team battle.

Either that or Max will run rings round Danny...which I think is what would happen.

You are joking right?
Danny Ric got worst when he left. Maybe distracted by his antics outside of the car.
I think he can only beat Max if he is as focused as Max.
Max will destroy him. The only way that doesnt happen is if as we have seen in the past the Redbull cars are like sunlight to superman for the redbull drivers and they look more complete in them when compared to driving another car.
Danny may well dip into the performance enhancing drug that is a redbull car and look imperious again. I doubt he will beat Max, but i do not think it will be a one sided show. He would give Max trouble. And for that reason Redbull will keep Checo.

My comment was tongue in cheek to the posters who think Danny would give Max real competition.

We all know that you could put literally anyone on the F1 grid alongside and Max would always end up on top.

[djos]

Get Danny in the RB seat and he will beat Max comfortably. Should make it interesting having a inter-team battle.

Either that or Max will run rings round Danny...which I think is what would happen.

Im a massive Danny Ric fan, but I don't think this is a realistic scenario - IMO he will be competitive every week, unlike Checo, but I do think max will have the upper hand over a season.

[Just_a_fan]

We all know that you could put literally anyone on the F1 grid alongside and Max would always end up on top.

Actually, we don't all know that at all. We can suspect it - Max is very much up there with the quickest drivers in F1 - but until he's actually had another driver of the same calibre in the same car, it's all speculation. Stick Alonso in the other car and it might be a very different story, for example. We just don't know.

I remember similar things being said about Seb when he was winning race after race for Red Bull. Things didn't pan out in quite the "he'll beat anyone" way that some were saying then.

It's why comparisons between drivers that haven't shared a car are a waste of time - be it between drivers on a given grid or between drivers of different eras. The only valid comparison is the actual team mates faced.

[Wouter]

Best F1 Drivers for Qualifying & Poll Position

Updated: Aug 15, 13:21

Discover who tops the charts in Formula 1 qualifying rounds. From gaining pole positions to consistently outpacing teammates, this article ranks the drivers who really know how to put the pedal to the metal when it matters most.

New research reveals Sergio Perez is the worst-performing driver on the grid compared to their teammate

It’s no secret that Sergio Perez is miles behind his Red Bull teammate Max Verstappen, but which Formula 1 driver isn’t?
Verstappen is flying high at the top of the drivers standings and Red Bull are well clear in the constructors, but there has been
a lot of finger-pointing at Sergio Perez suggesting that he’s not doing well enough.

Perez is routinely a long way off of Vertsappen’s pace - who isn’t? - but the picture looks really bad for the Mexican
when compared to how teammates from rival teams perform against each other.

Research compiled by OLBG has found that Perez is the furthest behind his teammate of any driver on the grid when it comes
to the level playing field that is qualifying.

Read here the long article about Perez

[djos]

I honestly can’t say I’m surprised.

[Vanja #66]

Sainz positioned as 2nd best qualifier tells you everything you need to know about that table

[Wouter]

Translated by DeepL.
.

In the Formula For Success podcast, former driver David Coulthard and former team owner Eddie Jordan discuss several high-profile topics from the world of Formula 1.
One listener wondered who would win the internal team duel if Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton drove for the same team.
Both men quickly agreed on the answer.

Coulthard is one of the most successful Formula 1 drivers who never managed to win a world title. The Scot won 13 races, which should put him only behind Stirling Moss if world champions are excluded. Coulthard did see teammate Mika Häkkinen become world champion twice, in 1998 and 1999, and was also teammate of Damon Hill and Kimi Räikkönen, among others. Jordan saw the Formula One team named after him win four Grands Prix and had the likes of Michael Schumacher and Rubens Barrichello make their debuts.

Currently, three world champions are active in Formula 1: Verstappen, Hamilton, and Fernando Alonso. The former pair split virtually all the major prizes in recent years, and so the question arises as to who would come out on top within the same team. 'When you're talking about the same car, it's also fair if you keep the same age, and the same amount of experience,' Jordan points out, noting that Hamilton drove almost twice as many races, but may not be at his absolute top level.
Hamilton versus Verstappen

Jordan therefore responds in the affirmative when asked if he thinks the 38-year-old Hamilton is too old. 'I think it's over. He can still win Grands Prix, but he will need everything to fall into place,' believes the former Irish team boss. 'The last few races he has performed strongly, and I am very impressed by what he is showing, but Max has that sweet spot in terms of age, experience, belief in his own ability, knowledge, the people he has around him in the team. He is in a very solid, safe structure. It will take a lot to knock him off that throne. I think, in the same car, and if they were the same age, that Max would win.'

Coulthard largely concurs with his colleague's words, but finds the initial judgement on Hamilton a bit harsh. 'I think Lewis still has it. They are both exceptionally good drivers. Not just good, but exceptionally good. Don't forget that Lewis is a seven-time world champion. If they were in the same team, which is never going to happen, there would definitely be contact. It would be a bit like Alain Prost and Ayrton Senna,' the former Red Bull Racing driver suspects. Verstappen and Hamilton, especially in 2021, have already been involved in several incidents with each other.

'I do have to say that Max is, as you say, in that sweet spot. He is only 25 years old, and has done so much in his time in Formula 1,' the Scot commented. 'He would just be the better one. Throughout your life, even if you are very successful, you take on more and more baggage. When you are young, you don't worry about anything. When you are older, you have more experience and make better decisions, but it also keeps you busy. Hamilton is busy off the track with everything that keeps him busy, while Max is completely focused on his simulator outside weekends. He is still completely immersed in everything to do with racing,' said Coulthard.

[Sieper]

We all know that you could put literally anyone on the F1 grid alongside and Max would always end up on top.

Actually, we don't all know that at all. We can suspect it - Max is very much up there with the quickest drivers in F1 - but until he's actually had another driver of the same calibre in the same car, it's all speculation. Stick Alonso in the other car and it might be a very different story, for example. We just don't know.

I remember similar things being said about Seb when he was winning race after race for Red Bull. Things didn't pan out in quite the "he'll beat anyone" way that some were saying then.

It's why comparisons between drivers that haven't shared a car are a waste of time - be it between drivers on a given grid or between drivers of different eras. The only valid comparison is the actual team mates faced.

We can know that. And Max has been showing that every year he has been in F1. And F3. And Karting. The proof is out there. This year Max is having a higher win percentage then ever someone before in the history of F1. Whilst his teammate can’t even qualify in the top 10 for 5 races straight.

[KeiKo403]

I’m not sure where to post this but could Max have another ‘first driver to…’ record this season?

I think it’s safe to say that Max is going to be crowned champion, but with Sprint races now a thing in F1 it’s possible that Max could become the Champion on a Saturday after a sprint race and before the race even starts on the Sunday, so halfway though the weekend.

There are 2 sprint weekends back to back in October where I’d think Max would realistically become Champion but just thinking with the correct circumstances he could clinch it on the Saturday.

Has this ever happened before? In the early days of the championship of a driver/team had to pull out for funding reasons or they’d died during the weekend?

[Just_a_fan]

We all know that you could put literally anyone on the F1 grid alongside and Max would always end up on top.

Actually, we don't all know that at all. We can suspect it - Max is very much up there with the quickest drivers in F1 - but until he's actually had another driver of the same calibre in the same car, it's all speculation. Stick Alonso in the other car and it might be a very different story, for example. We just don't know.

I remember similar things being said about Seb when he was winning race after race for Red Bull. Things didn't pan out in quite the "he'll beat anyone" way that some were saying then.

It's why comparisons between drivers that haven't shared a car are a waste of time - be it between drivers on a given grid or between drivers of different eras. The only valid comparison is the actual team mates faced.

We can know that. And Max has been showing that every year he has been in F1. And F3. And Karting. The proof is out there. This year Max is having a higher win percentage then ever someone before in the history of F1. Whilst his teammate can’t even qualify in the top 10 for 5 races straight.

The fact that his team mate isn't good enough is not proof that Max is automatically better than everyone else on the grid. The car is the class of the field - no one can sensibly deny that - so being so far ahead because his team mate isn't good enough to compete at every race proves nothing.

Having said that, I think Max is as good as anyone else on the grid and better than most. But all? We can't say that because he's never had to compete against someone of similar ability in the same car. I certainly think that had Alonso or Hamilton (or maybe a Russell/Norris/Leclerc) been in the other car rather than Perez, Max wouldn't have won so many races this season. But, again, I can't prove it because it hasn't (and won't) happen.

Max is a great, no doubt.

[organic]

If you're so good that you make others look terrible then it's sort of hard to compete against someone of similar ability in the same car... Double edged sword. If we look at how Max's teammates have been viewed prior and after going up against him it's some better indication of their level

Perez was rated amongst the top 5 drivers on the grid in 2020 by the team principals and has looked like a rookie at times in the 2nd RB seat, and at other times been subpar.

Ricciardo was rated in the top 5 drivers on the grid by team principals every (but one - 2019) year between 2014 and 2020, and yet Max was outclassing him in his backyard - in cars presumably Daniel helped design, was comfortable in, and RB built around him... - as a 19 year old.

Gasly now looks pretty good, comparable to Ocon who himself wasn't far off Alonso. But he was dusted alongside Max. Same with Albon who Ferrari have been reportedly interested in.

So there is ample evidence of Max beating what the paddock considers good drivers by huge margins - upwards of 5 tenths on average to Gasly/Albon/Perez in both race and qualifying.

There are lots of F1 greats who never had a multiple wdc teammate for comparison but you probably don't care to hold that against them

[Just_a_fan]

There are lots of F1 greats who never had a multiple wdc teammate for comparison but you probably don't care to hold that against them

Well, if one wanted to rank champions then it might be something you'd look at, but the whole thing is a fool's errand. No one would say that because Lewis beat Nico most of the time and Nico beat Michael every season they shared, then Lewis would beat Michael every time, would they? No, because it's a silly thing to say.

As said on numerous occasions, comparing drivers that haven't raced in the same car is not possible in any meaingful way.

But, in terms of the 2023 Red Bull team, Max is way better than Perez.

[langedweil]

I'd say this Summer break is taking too long, and we're in dire need of the dutch race thread to be opened.
Silly discussions/statements galore at the moment ..

[Zynerji]

Any takers on the idea of RBR going HEAVY after Rosberg? Could a.stupid 100m2yr get him back and in a RBR to challenge Max?