2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
11 Aug 2023, 23:43
I stated multiple times, earlier in the season, before the incredible surge of teams upgrading their side pods, that they were a critical area of the car.

The crux of my argument was, it’s not the bodywork shape in and of itself that is key, but rather, how critical that bodywork is in this regulation set in tying together the most important performance-generating bits of the car.

I felt the RB concept and the progress made by McLaren and AM after copying key features, validated that theory.

And then Dan Fallows hammered that home with this:

“There's no doubt that the sidepods are essentially flow-tuning features. They are things that condition the flow to the rear of the car, but it also helps the floor to work as well.

Although in itself maybe the actual performance improvements of the bodywork is not so big on its own, it helps everything else to work. So it's quite a big feature of the car.”
Both Andrea Stella and Pierre Wache (RB and Mclaren technical directors) more or less referred to the sidepods as part of a "sideskirt" system.

Sideskirts on their own don't do **** of course...you need a floor for sideskirts to matter, but then once you have a floor, if some teams have "sideskirts" and you don't...then it's a big part of the problem...there's no semantics about it. I agree and this is more or less what you have said above.
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Raleigh
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
11 Aug 2023, 23:49
zibby43 wrote:
11 Aug 2023, 23:43
I stated multiple times, earlier in the season, before the incredible surge of teams upgrading their side pods, that they were a critical area of the car.

The crux of my argument was, it’s not the bodywork shape in and of itself that is key, but rather, how critical that bodywork is in this regulation set in tying together the most important performance-generating bits of the car.

I felt the RB concept and the progress made by McLaren and AM after copying key features, validated that theory.

And then Dan Fallows hammered that home with this:

“There's no doubt that the sidepods are essentially flow-tuning features. They are things that condition the flow to the rear of the car, but it also helps the floor to work as well.

Although in itself maybe the actual performance improvements of the bodywork is not so big on its own, it helps everything else to work. So it's quite a big feature of the car.”
Both Andrea Stella and Pierre Wache (RB and Mclaren technical directors) more or less referred to the sidepods as part of a "sideskirt" system.

Sideskirts on their own don't do **** of course...you need a floor for sideskirts to matter, but then once you have a floor, if some teams have "sideskirts" and you don't...then it's a big part of the problem...there's no semantics about it. I agree and this is more or less what you have said above.
Back when teams had a lot more aero freedom...
Image

Much less elaborate now but clearly a similar concept.

Espresso
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
11 Aug 2023, 17:06
Just_a_fan and I discussed this privately.

I thought it could be an issue with floor flow control in certain types of yaw conditions. He thought it could be because of the center of pressure moving around under breaking.

It could be both it could be neither, but i'd bet my next paycheck it's heavily related to the monocoque design, and the constraints thats puts on the rest of the car.
Car loose stability if the chassis (not the floor) doesn’t create enough downforce.
Seems to me when they get close to the apex they loose that critical downforce to keep the car stable.
E.g. low down force wing+high speed=porpoising.
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ringo
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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May well be related to how the car sheds load under braking then the stability of reversing that to increasing the load on exit.
The stabily may well have to do with both aero and mechanical working together. Which is a broken record. But good insight from the team on that detail. At least they have good observations.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Too little rear down-force on corner entry and too little front downforce on corner exit. Basically instability. Redbull has more bulk downforce so they can sacrifice peak downforce for stable downforce.
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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succession planning...

Feel like this is the first time we have clear indication of who might take over from toto / what d'ambrosio's primary role is




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ringo
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Since Jerome stopped racing F-1, as a rather average driver, what has he been doing since?
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AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
19 Aug 2023, 20:29
Since Jerome stopped racing F-1, as a rather average driver, what has he been doing since?
Wikipedia:
Venturi Racing
2020–2022
On 30 October 2020, D’Ambrosio joined ROKiT Venturi Racing as Deputy Team Principal for the 2020–21 Formula E World Championship, taking his first steps into motor racing team management.[34]

In November, 2021, he was promoted to the role of Team Principal following a management restructure, with former team boss, Susie Wolff, being appointed to the position of chief executive officer.[35]

Under D’Ambrosio's leadership, ROKiT Venturi Racing experienced its most successful campaign to date in the 2021–22 Formula E World Championship, with the team winning five races and scoring 10 podiums in 16 races while also finishing second in the World Teams' Championship with 295 points.

On 16 September 2022, it was announced that D'Ambrosio had left the team ahead of its transition to Maserati MSG Racing for Season 9.[36]

2023– : Formula One
Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team
D'Ambrosio had been working closely with Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team Team Principal Toto Wolff at the start of the 2023 Formula One World Championship on an informal basis. At the 2023 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix, Wolff announced that D'Ambrosio had acquired a formal role as the Driver Development Director for the team.[1] He will be looking after and managing all of Mercedes' young drivers in various motorsports categories.
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Cs98
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Looks like Vowles leaving really did create a hole in the succession planning for the TP position.

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ringo
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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It seems he has worked under one Wolff so far which provides some proof of his work.
I see Totto leading team no further than 2025.
I highly suspect he leaves before the start of the new formula.
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AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Cs98 wrote:
19 Aug 2023, 21:53
Looks like Vowles leaving really did create a hole in the succession planning for the TP position.
JV was given an incredible offer by Williams, and Toto could not make him a better one because he wasn't ready to make himself redundant. So off to Williams he went. In hindsight maybe it would have been a good time to offer JV the TP role at Mercedes, if only to retain him?
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
20 Aug 2023, 00:52
Cs98 wrote:
19 Aug 2023, 21:53
Looks like Vowles leaving really did create a hole in the succession planning for the TP position.
JV was given an incredible offer by Williams, and Toto could not make him a better one because he wasn't ready to make himself redundant. So off to Williams he went. In hindsight maybe it would have been a good time to offer JV the TP role at Mercedes, if only to retain him?
However it was a time of turmoil for Merc already with the whole technical heads changing, and then changing back a year later. So I think changing a TP as well is not ideal in the situation Merc found themselves in after the year of the W13. Personally I think having JV prove himself at Williams first is not a bad thing.. I can see JV moving back in a couple of years when Toto is ready to leave, Russell style

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Big Tea
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
20 Aug 2023, 00:52
Cs98 wrote:
19 Aug 2023, 21:53
Looks like Vowles leaving really did create a hole in the succession planning for the TP position.
JV was given an incredible offer by Williams, and Toto could not make him a better one because he wasn't ready to make himself redundant. So off to Williams he went. In hindsight maybe it would have been a good time to offer JV the TP role at Mercedes, if only to retain him?
He could well return to Merc in the future with lots more experience. They may even have a 'distant' option on him in coming years which would have added to the value of Williams offer.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Williams might be the place to be in a few years time if James Vowles gets a free hand to have what he needs.

As for Mercedes.. I'm waiting to the end of 2023 to see if the team is in a decline or not. Let's see how James Allison steers the development and let's see if Toto can stop the bleeding of talents.
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
21 Aug 2023, 22:22
Williams might be the place to be in a few years time if James Vowles gets a free hand to have what he needs.
I think it will take a lot longer than a few years to get the infrastructure that Williams need to compete nearer the front

It has to be done within the cap excluded spending allowance, all the while the top teams will also be advancing their infrastructure. Renault have the same problem - not enough investment into infrastructure prior to the budget cap