2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[MCLvamos]

Not sure why, but having seen the wings I don't feel very confident about this weekend. Seems like a halfway job versus a basic low drag solution. Ofc I am no aero expert so I may be entirely wrong and I hope I am.

[CjC]

Not sure why, but having seen the wings I don't feel very confident about this weekend. Seems like a halfway job versus a basic low drag solution. Ofc I am no aero expert so I may be entirely wrong and I hope I am.

The Red Bull fans are wondering why they haven’t developed a Monza spec rear wing as well

[mwillems]

Two variants

Neither is fully Low DF but the first looks closer to a medium DF wing but with all the details that bring the Aero efficiencies.
Looks like they have created something very basic and want to see how it stacks up against something more developed. Makes me wonder how much development they were able to put into it versus getting something basic out of the door.

Yes, yes, I already saw these messages earlier in another thread. One option for low pressure - last year's wing was used here in Monza. The second option is a modification of the wing with an average downforce. Why did I write that I was not far from the truth? I expected the top flap cutout to be larger. Here it doesn't look like I imagined before. I'm sure the team will figure it out and choose the best option.

In theory yes, but the Diffuser, Beam Wing and Rear wing are so integrated now that it isn't that possible. I would not be surprised if this very basic wing is a design they already had in the drawer from early on in development and had already been assessed with the previous body, and maybe even built.

That is what I think they are doing, looking at a pre release wing that might do the trick versus an already developed mid df wing.

[LionsHeart]

Not sure why, but having seen the wings I don't feel very confident about this weekend. Seems like a halfway job versus a basic low drag solution. Ofc I am no aero expert so I may be entirely wrong and I hope I am.

We just have to wait to confirm or refute it. I always hope for the best, but mentally this weekend I am ready for a difficult race. Maybe a little later today I'll look at what other bim wing the team used last year to compare it with what the team will use here. Moreover, we have not yet seen the specification of the front wing, which is calculated for Monza. But I also assume that the topmost flap will simply be cut, nothing more.

[mwillems]

Not sure why, but having seen the wings I don't feel very confident about this weekend. Seems like a halfway job versus a basic low drag solution. Ofc I am no aero expert so I may be entirely wrong and I hope I am.

It might just magically work. it clearly is a very low cost effort whether they threw something together or had something in the drawer already, we can't write it off until we see it in action. it is at least nice that we are trying these options, something might come of it.

it is interesting that RB are not using a low DF wing. but they need to save tunnel and CFD time due to the overspend, and they are so fast they don't need one, so it makes sense for them.

Our inherent package is draggy beyond the wing so we don't the same advantage RB do and we may struggle unless we get lucky and the low DF wing clicks with the package.

[LionsHeart]

Neither is fully Low DF but the first looks closer to a medium DF wing but with all the details that bring the Aero efficiencies.
Looks like they have created something very basic and want to see how it stacks up against something more developed. Makes me wonder how much development they were able to put into it versus getting something basic out of the door.

Yes, yes, I already saw these messages earlier in another thread. One option for low pressure - last year's wing was used here in Monza. The second option is a modification of the wing with an average downforce. Why did I write that I was not far from the truth? I expected the top flap cutout to be larger. Here it doesn't look like I imagined before. I'm sure the team will figure it out and choose the best option.

In theory yes, but the Diffuser, Beam Wing and Rear wing are so integrated now that it isn't that possible. I would not be surprised if this very basic wing is a design they already had in the drawer from early on in development and had already been assessed with the previous body, and maybe even built.

That is what I think they are doing, looking at a pre release wing that might do the trick versus an already developed mid df wing.

I would be ready to fully confirm this thesis if I saw a slightly clipped wing in Spa plus an unloaded beam wing. Then the team wanted to increase the effect of the DRS, to get something that is similar in nature to the design of Red Bull. Unfortunately, I didn't see it. The team played it safe as usual and did not allow comparative tests. No, they were in the first and only practice, but already starting from the qualifying this variation tested by Lando, we did not see it anymore, but in vain.

[MrGapes]

Damn a lot of pessimism already based on wings

They will most probably run the dual horizontal elements (briefly seen at Spa) on the higher df config, and either the double vert or upper hori/lower vertical elements on the lower df.

Wouldn’t be surprised if it will be the higher df wing, clearly it's delivers optimised efficiency and works withthe existing rear elements (diffuser, beam wing, etc.)

[LionsHeart]

Damn a lot of pessimism already based on wings

They will most probably run the dual horizontal elements (briefly seen at Spa) on the higher df config, and either the double vert or upper hori/lower vertical elements on the lower df.

Wouldn’t be surprised if it will be the higher df wing, clearly it's delivers optimised efficiency and works with rear elements (diffuser, beam wing, etc.)

This is not pessimism, this is light caution.

[mclaren111]

Not sure why, but having seen the wings I don't feel very confident about this weekend. Seems like a halfway job versus a basic low drag solution. Ofc I am no aero expert so I may be entirely wrong and I hope I am.

That makes two of us...

[mwillems]

Not sure why, but having seen the wings I don't feel very confident about this weekend. Seems like a halfway job versus a basic low drag solution. Ofc I am no aero expert so I may be entirely wrong and I hope I am.

That makes two of us...

It might work, it might work well. it just looks like an attempt at plug and play which doesn't work so well on an F1 car, but maybe there is more to it than that or that it is simple enough it will do the job.

[mwillems]

Yes, yes, I already saw these messages earlier in another thread. One option for low pressure - last year's wing was used here in Monza. The second option is a modification of the wing with an average downforce. Why did I write that I was not far from the truth? I expected the top flap cutout to be larger. Here it doesn't look like I imagined before. I'm sure the team will figure it out and choose the best option.

In theory yes, but the Diffuser, Beam Wing and Rear wing are so integrated now that it isn't that possible. I would not be surprised if this very basic wing is a design they already had in the drawer from early on in development and had already been assessed with the previous body, and maybe even built.

That is what I think they are doing, looking at a pre release wing that might do the trick versus an already developed mid df wing.

I would be ready to fully confirm this thesis if I saw a slightly clipped wing in Spa plus an unloaded beam wing. Then the team wanted to increase the effect of the DRS, to get something that is similar in nature to the design of Red Bull. Unfortunately, I didn't see it. The team played it safe as usual and did not allow comparative tests. No, they were in the first and only practice, but already starting from the qualifying this variation tested by Lando, we did not see it anymore, but in vain.

Time will tell, I think the beam wing has to work in sync with the RW and you often see changes from the RW in conjunction with the Beam wing due to the fact they work closely. The beam wing and the rear wing are more important than ever in downforce due their creation of the low pressure zone around the diffuser that enhances its DF load. If this low pressure is not either sufficient or working consistently it could be an issue for the car. If the flow from the BW interacts unfavourably with the RW then this can be an issue.

They don't both always have to change, they just always have to work. In the wing on Norris' car they will be happy it will work as a package. If they were confident about the basic wing working as a package they'd be fine. They don't need much rear downforce, they aren't going to be too concerned about that aspect, just whether it works with the package, in my opinion and whether performance in terms of drag is OK. Drag "Should" be ok as it is much smaller, but all of the aero tricks and contours make a big difference.

Edit: Ferrari have brought a double beam wing to use here, as well as the single beam wing, to assist with exactly this phenomenon, since they are using a true low DF wing like in the "Good old days" where there would be a wing just for Monza, and this wing may not do enough to energise the floor. You can go small on the wing, that is fine, but it cannot compromise the effectiveness of the floor. The Mclaren Spa wing, similar to the wing brought here, is sufficient to not require a Beam Wing change. I wonder if Mclaren have changes to the Beam Wing?

This is a good example of how these wings relate, Ferrari are doing it due to being a home race though, most won't waste the cash, time or CFD/Tunnel on Monza specific wing and some won't even bring a general and developed low DF wing. After this year so far, Ferrari need a success here, it will do them a lot of good.

[Stig14]

Lots of focus on the rear wings available here but let's remember that the base car is now decent. I expect the car to be pretty competitive through Ascari and Parabolica which should give them a decent launch down the following straights. Straight line braking also seems to be decent on the car and so turn one should be OK. Thoughts?

[mclaren111]

Not sure why, but having seen the wings I don't feel very confident about this weekend. Seems like a halfway job versus a basic low drag solution. Ofc I am no aero expert so I may be entirely wrong and I hope I am.

That makes two of us...

It might work, it might work well. it just looks like an attempt at plug and play which doesn't work so well on an F1 car, but maybe there is more to it than that or that it is simple enough it will do the job.

[LionsHeart]

Lots of focus on the rear wings available here but let's remember that the base car is now decent. I expect the car to be pretty competitive through Ascari and Parabolica which should give them a decent launch down the following straights. Straight line braking also seems to be decent on the car and so turn one should be OK. Thoughts?

There are many thoughts. But having seen two options for the rear wing and not yet seeing the option of a beam wing and front wing, not yet knowing how the car will go through two Friday practices, not even seeing the primary telemetry, I have no idea how competitive the McLaren will be. Anything can be expected. Perhaps there are things that the team itself does not want to talk about yet, but they are also preparing for a difficult race, they are careful in their forecasts, and they have much more data than we do.

[mwillems]

Indeed a good point, low DF rear wing typically is packaged with smaller elements on the front wing, though I don't understand how crucial this I can only guess that if your rear wing is doing less, you want to use the side of the car to condition the flow. No idea if that is right or wrong.