2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[M840TR]

The most interesting thing is that one option will develop low drag without the use of DRS, but when DRS is enabled, the effect will be minimal. The second option is with a larger load and greater drag, but when the DRS is turned on, the effect will be greater. How this will affect the maximum speed at the exit from Parabolica, and in the braking zone, I think we will see on Friday evening, when the telemetry will be posted.

The greater drs speed is only proportional. So a loaded wing will gain more from drs on compared to drs off.

However the trimmed wing will still have higher top speed both with and without drs compared to the loaded wing.

Teams don’t really asses the configuration of wings on the basis of drs gains. The overall lap time effect considering the top speed, cornering speed, tire degradation and fuel consumption etc is the determining criteria.

This is different to a design philosophy factor that would net greater benefit from drs in general like redbull. However this concept is only a matter of speculation and perhaps such a feature could be integrated on both high and low df wings.

[LionsHeart]

The most interesting thing is that one option will develop low drag without the use of DRS, but when DRS is enabled, the effect will be minimal. The second option is with a larger load and greater drag, but when the DRS is turned on, the effect will be greater. How this will affect the maximum speed at the exit from Parabolica, and in the braking zone, I think we will see on Friday evening, when the telemetry will be posted.

The greater drs speed is only proportional. So a loaded wing will gain more from drs on compared to drs off.

However the trimmed wing will still have higher top speed both with and without drs compared to the loaded wing.

Teams don’t really asses the configuration of wings on the basis of drs gains. The overall lap time effect considering the top speed, cornering speed, tire degradation and fuel consumption etc is the determining criteria.

This is different to a design philosophy factor that would net greater benefit from drs in general like redbull. However this concept is only a matter of speculation and perhaps such a feature could be integrated on both high and low df wings.

Yes, that's exactly how it is. We often evaluate in isolation when we look at top speeds without drs and with drs on, without taking into account parameters such as braking distance, corner entry speed, corner exit stability and chassis balance. There's the fast Ascari chicane and the lingering Parabolica, where the extra downforce and overall stability won't be superfluous. All front and rear wing options are a compromise.

All teams on the simulator test a variety of wing options and their angle of attack, select the basic settings for both aero and suspension. The goal is to complete a lap in the shortest possible time, while in a race it is to complete the Grand Prix distances in the shortest possible time.

So yes, that's why we sometimes wonder why the team chooses certain options that seem not entirely clear and logical to us, besides, we often do this in comparison with the cars of the other 9 teams.

[LionsHeart]

Indeed a good point, low DF rear wing typically is packaged with smaller elements on the front wing, though I don't understand how crucial this I can only guess that if your rear wing is doing less, you want to use the side of the car to condition the flow. No idea if that is right or wrong.

In theory, in order to balance aerodynamics and not get oversteer with a small rear wing, teams are required to reduce the angle of attack of the front wing, and for Monza they used to bring completely new wings, now they are often limited to trimming the upper flaps. So I think yes, without it in any way. And as you rightly pointed out, everything should work as a whole as in the case of a diffuser, beam wing and main rear wing.

[mwillems]

Indeed a good point, low DF rear wing typically is packaged with smaller elements on the front wing, though I don't understand how crucial this I can only guess that if your rear wing is doing less, you want to use the side of the car to condition the flow. No idea if that is right or wrong.

In theory, in order to balance aerodynamics and not get oversteer with a small rear wing, teams are required to reduce the angle of attack of the front wing, and for Monza they used to bring completely new wings, now they are often limited to trimming the upper flaps. So I think yes, without it in any way. And as you rightly pointed out, everything should work as a whole as in the case of a diffuser, beam wing and main rear wing.

Yes good point. I know that and totally forgot lol

[mwillems]

[LionsHeart]

Oh, some interesting. It is curious that the team decided not to greatly reduce the size of the upper flaps of both wings. Are they really sure that this will be enough to feel confident on straight sections?

[LionsHeart]

I looked at Fabrega's options for the rear wings. And so I hoped that McLaren would make the same big pruning that they did in Haas. But alas, I was wrong.

[mwillems]

I think several of the teams have not brought a real low DF wing, they seem to be Low-Med wings and some Med wings. My eyes might be decieving me but the AM looking large in the pic I saw, but may have been a trick of the light and I'm struggling with Sinus/Migraine today.

The front wings also haven't lost too much for many teams. Is it for cost? is it because a certain amount of activity from the RW is needed for the package? It is a curious set of cars, they are definitely lower downforce, but not pulling out the stops apart from Ferrari. Could running too small a Front wing affect how the outwash works at the front this year?

[MCLvamos]

I hope, particularly if we prove to not be in the fight for the podium, that McLaren take the engine penalty on Norris' car (not sure about the situation on Oscar's side). We have a run of tracks after this one that are tricky to overtake on and, in theory, should suit the car and it would be good to get an extra engine into the pool now to hopefully take us to the end of the season. Thoughts?

[mwillems]

Im not convinced this will be a terrible race, I just think it has potential to be worse than some of the recent races, but still better than Pre Austria. I wouldn't take the engine here, but we can see after FP1 or FP2. If we look slow then it might not be a terrible idea.

[LionsHeart]

I think several of the teams have not brought a real low DF wing, they seem to be Low-Med wings and some Med wings. My eyes might be decieving me but the AM looking large in the pic I saw, but may have been a trick of the light and I'm struggling with Sinus/Migraine today.

The front wings also haven't lost too much for many teams. Is it for cost? is it because a certain amount of activity from the RW is needed for the package? It is a curious set of cars, they are definitely lower downforce, but not pulling out the stops apart from Ferrari. Could running too small a Front wing affect how the outwash works at the front this year?

Come on get well! I myself have been walking around with a runny nose for the last three days.

In Ferrari, I note that the main of rear wing profile is almost straight and small in size, but the upper flap is large, which will increase the efficiency of the DRS.

Regarding the size of the cutout on the front wings. Perhaps these teams have the ability to greatly vary the angle of attack of the upper flaps? Wider adjustment range?

[LionsHeart]

I hope, particularly if we prove to not be in the fight for the podium, that McLaren take the engine penalty on Norris' car (not sure about the situation on Oscar's side). We have a run of tracks after this one that are tricky to overtake on and, in theory, should suit the car and it would be good to get an extra engine into the pool now to hopefully take us to the end of the season. Thoughts?

Well, I already answered this one. I have to scroll back, I'm too lazy to look.

[mwillems]

I think several of the teams have not brought a real low DF wing, they seem to be Low-Med wings and some Med wings. My eyes might be decieving me but the AM looking large in the pic I saw, but may have been a trick of the light and I'm struggling with Sinus/Migraine today.

The front wings also haven't lost too much for many teams. Is it for cost? is it because a certain amount of activity from the RW is needed for the package? It is a curious set of cars, they are definitely lower downforce, but not pulling out the stops apart from Ferrari. Could running too small a Front wing affect how the outwash works at the front this year?

Come on get well! I myself have been walking around with a runny nose for the last three days.

In Ferrari, I note that the main of rear wing profile is almost straight and small in size, but the upper flap is large, which will increase the efficiency of the DRS.

Regarding the size of the cutout on the front wings. Perhaps these teams have the ability to greatly vary the angle of attack of the upper flaps? Wider adjustment range?

Is it large? If you look at the Ferrari thread this is a nice side profile. It looks similar to other top elements here but with an entirely flat T-Tray making the entire profile much less draggy and overall smaller/less DF than other wings.

This DF Loss is emphasised with a similar trick that we brought last week with the cutout, preventing the vertical and horizontal airflows from meeting and creating draggy vortices, you can't see this from the other pics. It's not the same as ours in design but the same function.

[LionsHeart]

I think several of the teams have not brought a real low DF wing, they seem to be Low-Med wings and some Med wings. My eyes might be decieving me but the AM looking large in the pic I saw, but may have been a trick of the light and I'm struggling with Sinus/Migraine today.

The front wings also haven't lost too much for many teams. Is it for cost? is it because a certain amount of activity from the RW is needed for the package? It is a curious set of cars, they are definitely lower downforce, but not pulling out the stops apart from Ferrari. Could running too small a Front wing affect how the outwash works at the front this year?

Come on get well! I myself have been walking around with a runny nose for the last three days.

In Ferrari, I note that the main of rear wing profile is almost straight and small in size, but the upper flap is large, which will increase the efficiency of the DRS.

Regarding the size of the cutout on the front wings. Perhaps these teams have the ability to greatly vary the angle of attack of the upper flaps? Wider adjustment range?

Is it large? If you look at the Ferrari thread this is a nice side profile. It looks similar to other top elements here but with an entirely flat T-Tray making the entire profile much less draggy and overall smaller/less DF than other wings.

This DF Loss is emphasised with a similar trick that we brought last week with the cutout, preventing the vertical and horizontal airflows from meeting and creating draggy vortices, you can't see this from the other pics. It's not the same as ours in design but the same function.

Compared to McLaren, yes. As I can see, the McLaren has a slightly larger main profile of the rear wing in terms of area and bend, but the upper flap is smaller in area.

[mwillems]

I need more pics, it doesn't like to rise to high to me on the top element. But as I say, together they are much smaller and the cutouts emphasise the DF/Drag reduction. It may be that the top wing is slightly larger because the cutouts are a more efficient way of lowering DF. But to my untrained eye the top element / DRS Flap looks comparable to the Mclaren.