2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[jambuka]

Read somewhere Carlos is 0.4s slower in long runs than Charles & Max. Anyone has data on long runs across FP session ?

[Xyz22]

Without any tow, Max would be on pole.

Great job by Sainz that positioned himself perfectly behind him.

[AR3-GP]

LEC 22 (red) v 23 (green)

https://i.imgur.com/p6YYy1n.jpeg

* Particularly helpful comparison because Ferrari is running the same rear wing.
* Roggia and Lesmos is why Ferrari is slower this year, simply goes through the corner with more difficulty, slower min speed and takes longer to be on throttle again, very easy to see how bad corner exit is past lesmo 1 into lesmo 2 (2500m) where the green line is below the red line for the whole stretch.
* Start straight, and into Ascari, and then into Parabolica to an extent, show the improvement in ERS, there's remarkably less clipping at the end of the straight.
* Not sure why there's so much speed difference on the straight into Parabolica, there was a car 200m in front of Leclerc in 2022 but it shouldn't account for that speed difference, but since it's just 4kph it might.

Engine is a clear improvement, if Ferrari didn't waste so much electric power to recover speed from bad corner exit they would be miles ahead instead of 0.2s behind.

They have a skinny wing. That's why corner exits are weak. If they had more wing, the top speed wouldn't be as high.

Also, the sense of "wasting electric power to recover speed" is not correct. Deployment occurs on corner exit at the traction limit regardless of good exit or bad exit. That's the fastest way to use your energy on the lap. The deployment would be the same even with the best corner exit.

Suggesting they should be miles ahead is a bit like saying "well if the car was better, they'd be miles ahead". Yes this is true

I like the rest of the analysis.

[dialtone]

LEC 22 (red) v 23 (green)

https://i.imgur.com/p6YYy1n.jpeg

* Particularly helpful comparison because Ferrari is running the same rear wing.
* Roggia and Lesmos is why Ferrari is slower this year, simply goes through the corner with more difficulty, slower min speed and takes longer to be on throttle again, very easy to see how bad corner exit is past lesmo 1 into lesmo 2 (2500m) where the green line is below the red line for the whole stretch.
* Start straight, and into Ascari, and then into Parabolica to an extent, show the improvement in ERS, there's remarkably less clipping at the end of the straight.
* Not sure why there's so much speed difference on the straight into Parabolica, there was a car 200m in front of Leclerc in 2022 but it shouldn't account for that speed difference, but since it's just 4kph it might.

Engine is a clear improvement, if Ferrari didn't waste so much electric power to recover speed from bad corner exit they would be miles ahead instead of 0.2s behind.

They have a skinny wing. That's why corner exits are weak. If they had more wing, the top speed wouldn't be as high.

Nah, same rear wing as last year which is what the comparison is with.

Also, the sense of "wasting electric power to recover speed" is not correct. Deployment occurs on corner exit at the traction limit regardless of good exit or bad exit. That's the fastest way to use your energy on the lap. The deployment would be the same even with the best corner exit.

Also not correct, if you are slower you take longer which means you are deployed for longer and use more battery

Suggesting they should be miles ahead is a bit like saying "well if the car was better, they'd be miles ahead". Yes this is true

Miles ahead of their last year car, not miles ahead of RBR (although for this race it's similar, it's definitely not the case in other races or in race pace). Not having totally crap corner exits compared to themselves from last year feels like a fairly set bar to me.

[AR3-GP]

LEC 22 (red) v 23 (green)

https://i.imgur.com/p6YYy1n.jpeg

* Particularly helpful comparison because Ferrari is running the same rear wing.
* Roggia and Lesmos is why Ferrari is slower this year, simply goes through the corner with more difficulty, slower min speed and takes longer to be on throttle again, very easy to see how bad corner exit is past lesmo 1 into lesmo 2 (2500m) where the green line is below the red line for the whole stretch.
* Start straight, and into Ascari, and then into Parabolica to an extent, show the improvement in ERS, there's remarkably less clipping at the end of the straight.
* Not sure why there's so much speed difference on the straight into Parabolica, there was a car 200m in front of Leclerc in 2022 but it shouldn't account for that speed difference, but since it's just 4kph it might.

Engine is a clear improvement, if Ferrari didn't waste so much electric power to recover speed from bad corner exit they would be miles ahead instead of 0.2s behind.

They have a skinny wing. That's why corner exits are weak. If they had more wing, the top speed wouldn't be as high.

Nah, same rear wing as last year which is what the comparison is with.

Also, the sense of "wasting electric power to recover speed" is not correct. Deployment occurs on corner exit at the traction limit regardless of good exit or bad exit. That's the fastest way to use your energy on the lap. The deployment would be the same even with the best corner exit.

Also not correct, if you are slower you take longer which means you are deployed for longer and use more battery

Suggesting they should be miles ahead is a bit like saying "well if the car was better, they'd be miles ahead". Yes this is true

Miles ahead of their last year car, not miles ahead of RBR (although for this race it's similar, it's definitely not the case in other races or in race pace).

Okay I misunderstood as I thought you were discussing in relation to RB. In hindsight it's obvious that you were discussing the F1-75.


Also to answer your question of the corner exits, I suspect it's due to the inherent higher speed understeer of the SF23 that means they cannot get on the power as early as the F1-75. You can see in the throttle traces that they wait longer this year to go back to full throttle. The exit of roggia and lesmos are notorious for testing a cars ability to turn.

[dialtone]

yeah, I think so as well, I suspect their front wing is cranked as high as they can to make them grip. Hopefully this will mean less energy in the front and less graining than F1-75.

[dialtone]

Without any tow, Max would be on pole.

Great job by Sainz that positioned himself perfectly behind him.

I don't see any tow for Carlos here:

[organic]

Carlos was 5.5s back from the car in front when he crossed the start/finish line.

Also just on the topic of downforce levels relative to last year: this year they're using a very aggressive single beamwing element here. I think last season they still had 2 elements even at Monza.

[dialtone]

Carlos was 5.5s back from the car in front when he crossed the start/finish line.

Also just on the topic of downforce levels relative to last year: this year they're using a very aggressive single beamwing element here. I think last season they still had 2 elements even at Monza.

It's the same wing. This was the wing last year:

[scuderiabrandon]

Less clipping could also be due to improvements in the drag department

[Xyz22]

Without any tow, Max would be on pole.

Great job by Sainz that positioned himself perfectly behind him.

I don't see any tow for Carlos here:

Then Sainz had a special engine mode He has gained time on every straight even with a worse exit than Lec and they had the same setup with the same wing.

According to my rough calculation, he has gained over 0.15s between all straights. I'm sure you can find the exact number as you are much better at evaluating telemetry

[scuderiabrandon]

Without any tow, Max would be on pole.

Great job by Sainz that positioned himself perfectly behind him.

I don't see any tow for Carlos here:

Then Sainz had a special engine mode

The main losses for LEC came from della roggia chicane. SAI nailed the chicane where he gained over a tenth on both LEC and VER. SAI either had a very distant tow, or is running less fw flap (which is more likely the case IMO)since he had a 2-3kph adavantage on the straights. Not a crazy amount.

With a clean roggia chicane LEC would've been on pole by 2 tenths as he gained over a tenth back through parabolica. SAI did just enough to secure the lap.

[Xyz22]

I don't see any tow for Carlos here:

Then Sainz had a special engine mode

The main losses for LEC came from della roggia chicane. SAI nailed the chicane where he gained over a tenth on both LEC and VER. SAI either had a very distant tow, or is running less fw flap (which is more likely the case IMO)since he had a 2-3kph adavantage on the straights. Not a crazy amount.

With a clean roggia chicane LEC would've been on pole by 2 tenths as he gained over a tenth back through parabolica. SAI did just enough to secure the lap.

https://ibb.co/2qWzMQr

Check the gap between a corner exit and the end of the relative straight. Sainz gained time every time, and that can't be fully explained by a better exit.

When you sum up everything, the difference is over 0.15s

[AR3-GP]

Then Sainz had a special engine mode

The main losses for LEC came from della roggia chicane. SAI nailed the chicane where he gained over a tenth on both LEC and VER. SAI either had a very distant tow, or is running less fw flap (which is more likely the case IMO)since he had a 2-3kph adavantage on the straights. Not a crazy amount.

With a clean roggia chicane LEC would've been on pole by 2 tenths as he gained over a tenth back through parabolica. SAI did just enough to secure the lap.

https://ibb.co/2qWzMQr

Check the gap between a corner exit and the end of the relative straight. Sainz gained time every time, and that can't be fully explained by a better exit.

When you sum up everything, the difference is over 0.15s

I think Scuderia Brandon's point about the front wing flap settings is a good one. We have also observed this "phenomenon" at RB. Perez always 2-3 km/h faster than Verstappen on the straights at many circuits. It makes sense that more front wing angle (preferred for Verstappen, Leclerc), is draggier.

Both drivers have a new engine and I dont think that Sainz had a mode that Leclerc did not (unless we later find Leclerc was told the wrong setting ). Of course Sainz might have had the slightest of slip streams as well.

[Mansell89]

Big congrats, Tifosi!

Special Pole from Carlos- hope both cars can give Max a headache tomorrow!