2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[FittingMechanics]

I've been arguing for ages that Mechanical and Aero work together and so one could make up some of the deficiencies in the other and that I think that this car's front issue was more Aero related. I recall having this discussion with someone else at Monza also where I suggested that the chicanes wouldn't be as straight forward an issue as you'd think, and it came to pass that the car was passable in the chicane, but awful on entry,

I think yesterday with Lionsheart I also made that point that since once can make up the deficiencies of the other it still doesn't mean that the mechanical elements of the front of the car aren't holding back what is now amazing front aero.

Could it be something like the car loses too much downforce when at angle of attack at low speed? So they would prefer to brake in a straight line so they keep most of the downforce, then quickly change direction and then speed off (V shape)?

[Tomsky]

[LionsHeart]

I've been arguing for ages that Mechanical and Aero work together and so one could make up some of the deficiencies in the other and that I think that this car's front issue was more Aero related. I recall having this discussion with someone else at Monza also where I suggested that the chicanes wouldn't be as straight forward an issue as you'd think, and it came to pass that the car was passable in the chicane, but awful on entry,

I think yesterday with Lionsheart I also made that point that since once can make up the deficiencies of the other it still doesn't mean that the mechanical elements of the front of the car aren't holding back what is now amazing front aero.

Yes, today the thought also occurred to me that there is no need to separate mechanics and aerodynamics. Everything works together.

[LionsHeart]

I've been arguing for ages that Mechanical and Aero work together and so one could make up some of the deficiencies in the other and that I think that this car's front issue was more Aero related. I recall having this discussion with someone else at Monza also where I suggested that the chicanes wouldn't be as straight forward an issue as you'd think, and it came to pass that the car was passable in the chicane, but awful on entry,

I think yesterday with Lionsheart I also made that point that since once can make up the deficiencies of the other it still doesn't mean that the mechanical elements of the front of the car aren't holding back what is now amazing front aero.

Could it be something like the car loses too much downforce when at angle of attack at low speed? So they would prefer to brake in a straight line so they keep most of the downforce, then quickly change direction and then speed off (V shape)?

You are very close to the truth. I also had this thought before. The driver wants to brake on straight wheels, so as not to lose the stability of the rear when braking, and then quickly enter the turn, which leads to a V-shaped trajectory.

[mwillems]

I've been arguing for ages that Mechanical and Aero work together and so one could make up some of the deficiencies in the other and that I think that this car's front issue was more Aero related. I recall having this discussion with someone else at Monza also where I suggested that the chicanes wouldn't be as straight forward an issue as you'd think, and it came to pass that the car was passable in the chicane, but awful on entry,

I think yesterday with Lionsheart I also made that point that since once can make up the deficiencies of the other it still doesn't mean that the mechanical elements of the front of the car aren't holding back what is now amazing front aero.

Could it be something like the car loses too much downforce when at angle of attack at low speed? So they would prefer to brake in a straight line so they keep most of the downforce, then quickly change direction and then speed off (V shape)?

Well I was wondering this yesterday and posted as such, or if the wing is stalling, or anything else and suggested that one way to look is to review turn 3 - as it is a lower speed entry and so therefore if it is related to flex, AoA or wing stall then the performance would be better here in comparison to other cars than in other low speed corners that have a higher speed entry.

[mwillems]

I've been arguing for ages that Mechanical and Aero work together and so one could make up some of the deficiencies in the other and that I think that this car's front issue was more Aero related. I recall having this discussion with someone else at Monza also where I suggested that the chicanes wouldn't be as straight forward an issue as you'd think, and it came to pass that the car was passable in the chicane, but awful on entry,

I think yesterday with Lionsheart I also made that point that since once can make up the deficiencies of the other it still doesn't mean that the mechanical elements of the front of the car aren't holding back what is now amazing front aero.

Could it be something like the car loses too much downforce when at angle of attack at low speed? So they would prefer to brake in a straight line so they keep most of the downforce, then quickly change direction and then speed off (V shape)?

You are very close to the truth. I also had this thought before. The driver wants to brake on straight wheels, so as not to lose the stability of the rear when braking, and then quickly enter the turn, which leads to a V-shaped trajectory.

Rear traction looks like it is best in class though, we are consistently one of if not the best out of corners. Doesn't mean you are wrong, but it runs counter to the idea somewhat.

it feels to me like that the entry is related to how the car behaves under braking in entry to a corner and how this behavior impacts the tyres and that this might impact the AoA, the tyre deformation or the stability of the front.

But that doesn't mean that this odd behavior is necessarily much of a time loss, it may be unnatural but that doesn't make it that slow, but you'd assume there is some time loss.

It just feels like the front wheels are sensitive to the type, stability or window of load that the car puts them under and that they don't work well with our chassis/suspension etc This would explain increased tire wear and temperature in the tires if the car makes them squirm or not have stable deformation in certain situations.

[LionsHeart]

Could it be something like the car loses too much downforce when at angle of attack at low speed? So they would prefer to brake in a straight line so they keep most of the downforce, then quickly change direction and then speed off (V shape)?

You are very close to the truth. I also had this thought before. The driver wants to brake on straight wheels, so as not to lose the stability of the rear when braking, and then quickly enter the turn, which leads to a V-shaped trajectory.

Rear traction looks like it is best in class though, we are consistently one of if not the best out of corners. Doesn't mean you are wrong, but it runs counter to the idea somewhat.

it feels to me like that the entry is related to how the car behaves under braking in entry to a corner and how this behavior impacts the tyres and that this might impact the AoA, the tyre deformation or the stability of the front.

But that doesn't mean that this odd behavior is necessarily much of a time loss, it may be unnatural but that doesn't make it that slow, but you'd assume there is some time loss.

It just feels like the front wheels are sensitive to the type, stability or window of load that the car puts them under and that they don't work well with our chassis/suspension etc This would explain increased tire wear and temperature in the tires if the car makes them squirm or not have stable deformation in certain situations.

Yes, I agree. I don't rule out the possibility that I could be wrong. I can also see that the traction is good, but it is difficult to explain why the trajectory at the entrance to the turn changes as the tires wear out. I would even say that it is difficult to imagine which tires wear out more. Possibly the rear ones. Lando had problems coming out of the slow corners when driving behind Yuki at Zandvoort. The back part was sliding, except that I remembered these things.

In the second training session we will see more of what the updated update package is. The first session went smoothly. I noticed that the geometry of the diffuser has changed, becoming more flattened at the top, as Red Bull has previously used. We also have a different version of the beam for high pressure, but perhaps for less drag compared to the version with which Oscar is riding.

The front wing end plate is cut and has a different curve when looking at the wing from the front. I will not comment on the remaining updates. Everyone saw them and understood what was what.

[mwillems]

You are very close to the truth. I also had this thought before. The driver wants to brake on straight wheels, so as not to lose the stability of the rear when braking, and then quickly enter the turn, which leads to a V-shaped trajectory.

Rear traction looks like it is best in class though, we are consistently one of if not the best out of corners. Doesn't mean you are wrong, but it runs counter to the idea somewhat.

it feels to me like that the entry is related to how the car behaves under braking in entry to a corner and how this behavior impacts the tyres and that this might impact the AoA, the tyre deformation or the stability of the front.

But that doesn't mean that this odd behavior is necessarily much of a time loss, it may be unnatural but that doesn't make it that slow, but you'd assume there is some time loss.

It just feels like the front wheels are sensitive to the type, stability or window of load that the car puts them under and that they don't work well with our chassis/suspension etc This would explain increased tire wear and temperature in the tires if the car makes them squirm or not have stable deformation in certain situations.

Yes, I agree. I don't rule out the possibility that I could be wrong. I can also see that the traction is good, but it is difficult to explain why the trajectory at the entrance to the turn changes as the tires wear out. I would even say that it is difficult to imagine which tires wear out more. Possibly the rear ones. Lando had problems coming out of the slow corners when driving behind Yuki at Zandvoort. The back part was sliding, except that I remembered these things.

In the second training session we will see more of what the updated update package is. The first session went smoothly. I noticed that the geometry of the diffuser has changed, becoming more flattened at the top, as Red Bull has previously used. We also have a different version of the beam for high pressure, but perhaps for less drag compared to the version with which Oscar is riding.

The front wing end plate is cut and has a different curve when looking at the wing from the front. I will not comment on the remaining updates. Everyone saw them and understood what was what.

Because the fresh grip of a tyre gives it more stability but as it loses grip it loses more stability and begins to squirm more, heat more and degrade more, essentially compounding the issue and creating a quicker path to the end of the tyre causing us to need to manage the tyre on entry and to try and avoid the cornering instability, if I am correct, which I'm probably not

[MCLvamos]

The Ferraris look surprisingly fast. Hopefully running light or something otherwise they look mega strong.

[mwillems]

I'm just happy that we look competitive. We'll get more info tomorrow on the real state of play.

[Seerix]

Looked like Lando with the old rear wing towards the end of FP2

[LionsHeart]

Rear traction looks like it is best in class though, we are consistently one of if not the best out of corners. Doesn't mean you are wrong, but it runs counter to the idea somewhat.

it feels to me like that the entry is related to how the car behaves under braking in entry to a corner and how this behavior impacts the tyres and that this might impact the AoA, the tyre deformation or the stability of the front.

But that doesn't mean that this odd behavior is necessarily much of a time loss, it may be unnatural but that doesn't make it that slow, but you'd assume there is some time loss.

It just feels like the front wheels are sensitive to the type, stability or window of load that the car puts them under and that they don't work well with our chassis/suspension etc This would explain increased tire wear and temperature in the tires if the car makes them squirm or not have stable deformation in certain situations.

Yes, I agree. I don't rule out the possibility that I could be wrong. I can also see that the traction is good, but it is difficult to explain why the trajectory at the entrance to the turn changes as the tires wear out. I would even say that it is difficult to imagine which tires wear out more. Possibly the rear ones. Lando had problems coming out of the slow corners when driving behind Yuki at Zandvoort. The back part was sliding, except that I remembered these things.

In the second training session we will see more of what the updated update package is. The first session went smoothly. I noticed that the geometry of the diffuser has changed, becoming more flattened at the top, as Red Bull has previously used. We also have a different version of the beam for high pressure, but perhaps for less drag compared to the version with which Oscar is riding.

The front wing end plate is cut and has a different curve when looking at the wing from the front. I will not comment on the remaining updates. Everyone saw them and understood what was what.

Because the fresh grip of a tyre gives it more stability but as it loses grip it loses more stability and begins to squirm more, heat more and degrade more, essentially compounding the issue and creating a quicker path to the end of the tyre causing us to need to manage the tyre on entry and to try and avoid the cornering instability, if I am correct, which I'm probably not

In general, everything is written correctly. Nothing to add here.

[LionsHeart]

Looked like Lando with the old rear wing towards the end of FP2

Yeah, right. They compare data and look for the fastest option.

[Macklaren]

Bit of an anonymous FP2. Hope it was just parts testing/validation

[coltmarshmallow]

Bit of an anonymous FP2. Hope it was just parts testing/validation

It's the stealth livery