2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

[peewon]

I looks like they haven't understood what went wrong with the upgrade direction.

We don't really know, at least those like us that don't have first hand accounts inside the team. If you want to see the glass half full it's a good thing that we are not aware of what's going on, to be honest.

Let's see, last year they started hyping up things a bit with some bold statements by the end of the year coming from Dan and Eric. Early days still, so far there's been an article from McCullough where he promises a more efficient car for next year.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/aston ... /10519242/

Well...I guess it is the same old game. They are quite good on developing a new car now. But in-season development is much more difficult and simply not on par with the top teams. I guess it will go backwards...further.

We have yet to see even if their off season development was one off or not. In other words, did they poach talent from other teams or just knowledge which once utilized cannot sustain development in future. I really hope its the former but I'll wait for another off season before stating that they can develop in off season effectively. Frankly, the lack of development in season compared to other teams is very alarming and not confidence inducing.

Mclaren and Mercedes basically built a second car from scratch during the season and leapfrogged them. Williams and Ferrari also made massive overhauls and improved noticeably. Thats a red flag for AM's technical dept.

[basti313]

Really strange race, where did the FP2 race pace go? I'm not sure the broken suspension housing is going to make a massive difference, not enough to account for all the defecit anyway. Even without all the calamitous incidents the best they could get was probably p9 or p10 on a track which should really suit the car. I looks like they haven't understood what went wrong with the upgrade direction. Bit deflating really as this was there chance to win a race. If this track was in the opening part of the season I think they win it. Shame.

Look at the posts of issey and juhz just up above.

Yes, I read them and reference the issue re: damaged suspension housing. As I said I think that's a bit of red herring. Obviously that is pure conjecture on my part.

I understand people saying in-season development is harder but they were one of the best teams at improving their car last year. Obviously that's easier given the lower starting point but I didn't see them getting completely annihilated in the development race by McLaren. Hopefully they can have a couple more decent races before the season is over.

I do not think that was what you would call "in season development" last year. They started with something like a testing spec, not more and brought their launch spec much, much later.

[jofs89]

We don't really know, at least those like us that don't have first hand accounts inside the team. If you want to see the glass half full it's a good thing that we are not aware of what's going on, to be honest.

Let's see, last year they started hyping up things a bit with some bold statements by the end of the year coming from Dan and Eric. Early days still, so far there's been an article from McCullough where he promises a more efficient car for next year.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/aston ... /10519242/

Well...I guess it is the same old game. They are quite good on developing a new car now. But in-season development is much more difficult and simply not on par with the top teams. I guess it will go backwards...further.

We have yet to see even if their off season development was one off or not. In other words, did they poach talent from other teams or just knowledge which once utilized cannot sustain development in future. I really hope its the former but I'll wait for another off season before stating that they can develop in off season effectively. Frankly, the lack of development in season compared to other teams is very alarming and not confidence inducing.

Mclaren and Mercedes basically built a second car from scratch during the season and leapfrogged them. Williams and Ferrari also made massive overhauls and improved noticeably. Thats a red flag for AM's technical dept.

I think that's a good point. They did make good progress last year though. I would argue the car they had at the end of last season was at least as competitive as they have been in the last two events and that was from an absolute dog at the start of the season (in 2022). So it shows they can do some decent in-season development, just seamingly not this year.

I think others have referenced all the in-season wind tunnel allocation went towards concepts that included the flexi front wing, so thus it was all wasted. I'm not completely convinced by that but it would go some way to explaining the very poor development.

[jofs89]

Look at the posts of issey and juhz just up above.

Yes, I read them and reference the issue re: damaged suspension housing. As I said I think that's a bit of red herring. Obviously that is pure conjecture on my part.

I understand people saying in-season development is harder but they were one of the best teams at improving their car last year. Obviously that's easier given the lower starting point but I didn't see them getting completely annihilated in the development race by McLaren. Hopefully they can have a couple more decent races before the season is over.

I do not think that was what you would call "in season development" last year. They started with something like a testing spec, not more and brought their launch spec much, much later.

Was it their intention to run a test spec through? Or did they realise the concept wasn't working? Also, the b-spec car didn't work staight away, it needed a lot of tweaking and developement to optimise it. So they gradually got more competitive throughout the season. Is that not in-season developement?

I would say last season was a similar situtation and trend to Mclaren this year, albeit less dramitic and impressive, as Mclarens b-spec car worked straight away.

[Juzh]

Really strange race, where did the FP2 race pace go? I'm not sure the broken suspension housing is going to make a massive difference, not enough to account for all the defecit anyway. Even without all the calamitous incidents the best they could get was probably p9 or p10 on a track which should really suit the car. I looks like they haven't understood what went wrong with the upgrade direction. Bit deflating really as this was there chance to win a race. If this track was in the opening part of the season I think they win it. Shame.

Look at the posts of issey and juhz just up above.

Yes, I read them and reference the issue re: damaged suspension housing. As I said I think that's a bit of red herring. Obviously that is pure conjecture on my part.

Alonso is not in a habit of locking up, jumping over pitlane entries and randomly running into escape zones on soft tyres. Since 2022 we've seen cars with what looked like negligible damage become almost undriveable as soon as you disturb the floor even slightly. Calling this a red herring is silly.

[basti313]

Yes, I read them and reference the issue re: damaged suspension housing. As I said I think that's a bit of red herring. Obviously that is pure conjecture on my part.

I understand people saying in-season development is harder but they were one of the best teams at improving their car last year. Obviously that's easier given the lower starting point but I didn't see them getting completely annihilated in the development race by McLaren. Hopefully they can have a couple more decent races before the season is over.

I do not think that was what you would call "in season development" last year. They started with something like a testing spec, not more and brought their launch spec much, much later.

Was it their intention to run a test spec through? Or did they realise the concept wasn't working? Also, the b-spec car didn't work staight away, it needed a lot of tweaking and developement to optimise it. So they gradually got more competitive throughout the season. Is that not in-season developement?

I would say last season was a similar situtation and trend to Mclaren this year, albeit less dramitic and impressive, as Mclarens b-spec car worked straight away.

They brought an entirely new car after 5 races, this is nothing I can call "in season development", sorry. They had this car in the wind tunnel before the season started...
McLaren comparison...difficult. They condensed every afford into one big upgrade during the season. Also not a usual "in season development", but more a B-spec. This is also nothing that wins you a championship or makes you competitive over a season. So not really a good comparison.

[jofs89]

I do not think that was what you would call "in season development" last year. They started with something like a testing spec, not more and brought their launch spec much, much later.

Was it their intention to run a test spec through? Or did they realise the concept wasn't working? Also, the b-spec car didn't work staight away, it needed a lot of tweaking and developement to optimise it. So they gradually got more competitive throughout the season. Is that not in-season developement?

I would say last season was a similar situtation and trend to Mclaren this year, albeit less dramitic and impressive, as Mclarens b-spec car worked straight away.

They brought an entirely new car after 5 races, this is nothing I can call "in season development", sorry. They had this car in the wind tunnel before the season started...
McLaren comparison...difficult. They condensed every afford into one big upgrade during the season. Also not a usual "in season development", but more a B-spec. This is also nothing that wins you a championship or makes you competitive over a season. So not really a good comparison.

I understand why you can might say a b-spec car in early season doesn't constitue "in-season development". I sort of agree. However, I think you're ignoring the rest of the 2022 season after the point it was introduced. That b-spec car (or whatever you want to call it) wasn't at all competitive in Spain when it was introduced, yet it was far more competitive by the end of the season. Would this not require good in-season development to achieve? Or at least better inseason development than clearly going backwards (like this year).

So you're saying the need for Mclaren to introduce a b-spec car in the early season (2023) has no similarlities to Aston Martin introducing a b-spec car near the start of last season? How is one an upgrade and one not an upgrade? Mclaren even mentioned it at the start of the season that they messed up the ride height so have a new version coming.

I do agree that this sort of activity doesn't win you championships though.

[diffuser]

Look at the posts of issey and juhz just up above.

Yes, I read them and reference the issue re: damaged suspension housing. As I said I think that's a bit of red herring. Obviously that is pure conjecture on my part.

Alonso is not in a habit of locking up, jumping over pitlane entries and randomly running into escape zones on soft tyres. Since 2022 we've seen cars with what looked like negligible damage become almost undriveable as soon as you disturb the floor even slightly. Calling this a red herring is silly.

It would have been negligible if the piece would have broken off completely. I'm sure it's a bigger deal since it stayed attached and flapped around in front of the floor opening. How much? I don't know but you don't have stable DF on 1 side, it's fluctuating.

I'm surprised we haven't heard anything from Krack on it. At this point, I don't expect anything from him before he arrives in Japan.

[jofs89]

Yes, I read them and reference the issue re: damaged suspension housing. As I said I think that's a bit of red herring. Obviously that is pure conjecture on my part.

Alonso is not in a habit of locking up, jumping over pitlane entries and randomly running into escape zones on soft tyres. Since 2022 we've seen cars with what looked like negligible damage become almost undriveable as soon as you disturb the floor even slightly. Calling this a red herring is silly.

It would have been negligible if the piece would have broken off completely. I'm sure it's a bigger deal since it stayed attached and flapped around in front of the floor opening. How much? I don't know but you don't have stable DF on 1 side, it's fluctuating.

I'm surprised we haven't heard anything from Krack on it. At this point, I don't expect anything from him before he arrives in Japan.

I concur, if this affected the performance to large degree surely the team would latch onto that and be pushing it for PR reasons. Because they didn't I'm not sure how big an impact it had. Yes, it would have had some impact, I don't doubt that. However, if they have rubbish rear stability in Sazuka then maybe it is a red herring. Apologies if some find this opinion silly...

[peewon]

Well...I guess it is the same old game. They are quite good on developing a new car now. But in-season development is much more difficult and simply not on par with the top teams. I guess it will go backwards...further.

We have yet to see even if their off season development was one off or not. In other words, did they poach talent from other teams or just knowledge which once utilized cannot sustain development in future. I really hope its the former but I'll wait for another off season before stating that they can develop in off season effectively. Frankly, the lack of development in season compared to other teams is very alarming and not confidence inducing.

Mclaren and Mercedes basically built a second car from scratch during the season and leapfrogged them. Williams and Ferrari also made massive overhauls and improved noticeably. Thats a red flag for AM's technical dept.

I think that's a good point. They did make good progress last year though. I would argue the car they had at the end of last season was at least as competitive as they have been in the last two events and that was from an absolute dog at the start of the season (in 2022). So it shows they can do some decent in-season development, just seamingly not this year.

I think others have referenced all the in-season wind tunnel allocation went towards concepts that included the flexi front wing, so thus it was all wasted. I'm not completely convinced by that but it would go some way to explaining the very poor development.

The flexi front wing is definitely a monkey wrench and if you're an AM or Alonso fan, you hope thats what put them on the backfoot with their concept. Maybe then its possible that once they revise the basic concept they can make progress again.

I think the question mark over the offseason jump is Fallows worked with Newey and may have brought over some knowledge of basic designs and concepts which they were able to implement to make a leap but unable to develop further. I know Fallows has a strong reputation otherwise but that is TBD.

[diffuser]

I don't want to go down that Fallows route again. They've picked up more than just Fallows. He probably has the bigger name cause when McLaren went after Promondous and Fallows. Fallow was the one that RBR wouldn't let go. Plus if Fallows used everything he learned from Newey to improve the car this year, you think they would have a more similar aero strategy. If the AMR23 looked more like the McLaren, you'd probably be able to argue that.
There was also the move, sure that had some effect.

Think you really have to wait for the year after they have the tunnel built to judge.

[AR3-GP]

Why is everything being put down to fallows? F1 is way more complicated than that.

[trinidefender]

That pay slip Mike Krack receives at the end of each month must be really good. I want to support AM, I really do but I can't stand this sort of appeasement. This team will only become championship contending when papa stroll realises his son isn't as good as he thinks he is.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/asto ... /10521931/

[issey]

[Juzh]

Sounds kinda obvious