2023 Scuderia AlphaTauri F1 Team

[BMMR61]

Max was very new on the grid at the point ricciardo was beating him and was the established team leader.. and to not ignore the bad reliability run, every time ricciardo retired in 2018 it was from a position behind Max on track because he was being beaten on pace not just reliability

I don't think ricciardo at his prime compared to max only a couple of years out of karts (when most would be doing F3) is fair to bring into what would end up being: max now (possible prime) Vs ricciardo aged 34 with time out of F1 and most definitely not in his prime.. Personally I think current ric wouldn't be any closer than Perez is atm. But that's just my opinion

Daniel raced against Max for 3 years. Jos even called him “really good, a qualifying beast.”.

He would wipe the floor with Perez!

As teammates I agree ricciardo would beat Perez. But the issue is being Max's teammate requires extreme mental toughness - Gasly, Perez, Albon have all said as much. There are a few things that Ricciardo's McLaren stint exposed to me clearly but one of them is that he doesn't have that mental toughness. And maybe leaving the team to be clear #1 elsewhere was an early indicator of that.

I also can't view Jos as having an objective position.. he presumably based ricciardo's beastly form in qualifying on how he had Max's number in 2016-17 in quali. But how quick was max in quali back then really.. even now he is not considered the quickest in 1 lap pace.

Yeah that is a bit of a vulnerability long term for the Red Bull main act. It's a bit like Mercedes post Nico, they don't like the inner conflict and crash damage but having a driver whose head gets fried by the brilliance of Max and the natural trajectory of the engineering and strategy in max's direction??? Hard to see who could live in that kitchen!

[djos]

Max was very new on the grid at the point ricciardo was beating him and was the established team leader.. and to not ignore the bad reliability run, every time ricciardo retired in 2018 it was from a position behind Max on track because he was being beaten on pace not just reliability

I don't think ricciardo at his prime compared to max only a couple of years out of karts (when most would be doing F3) is fair to bring into what would end up being: max now (possible prime) Vs ricciardo aged 34 with time out of F1 and most definitely not in his prime.. Personally I think current ric wouldn't be any closer than Perez is atm. But that's just my opinion

Daniel raced against Max for 3 years. Jos even called him “really good, a qualifying beast.”.

He would wipe the floor with Perez!

As teammates I agree ricciardo would beat Perez. But the issue is being Max's teammate requires extreme mental toughness - Gasly, Perez, Albon have all said as much. There are a few things that Ricciardo's McLaren stint exposed to me clearly but one of them is that he doesn't have that mental toughness. And maybe leaving the team to be clear #1 elsewhere was an early indicator of that.

I also can't view Jos as having an objective position.. he presumably based ricciardo's beastly form in qualifying on how he had Max's number in 2016-17 in quali. But how quick was max in quali back then really.. even now he is not considered the quickest in 1 lap pace.

The only thing Daniel’s McLaren stint uncovered, was just how bad the McLaren cars had been for 5 years.

[Bill]

Tobi Gruner says...... Hadn't heard of him till now. I've looked at some of his twitter stuff and a lot looks more speculation than inside knowledge. We'll see.
I don't know how much the Honda powertrain connection brings to the Tsunoda future. AM are the future of Honda and RB seemingly downplay Honda to a great extent since their timid withdrawal during the 2021 season. Liam will at this point be extremely lucky to lose out again given he has already shown a better self control in most situations. Given he hasn't crashed the car, he's had a couple of spins, he's been narrowing the outright pace difference to Yuki, he looks to have a decent future. Dr Marko has made some questionable calls and shown a lot of abrasiveness towards his drivers. Favouring Kvyat over Sainz, blaming Ricciardo for the Baku coming together with Max and the loss of trust involved, choosing deVries on the basis of one GP then having a change of heart, and plenty of media lines which undermine trust. I just struggle with Yuki, mainly due to his lack of self control and an apparent lack of racing brain. Yes, he has tidied it up a bit in 2023 but a rookie snapping at his heels with no preparation and simulator work until a few weeks ago??? Year 3 is meant to be where a gauge of a driver's peak ability can be gauged (not saying they have peaked). Yuki just doesn't look to be firmly in the F1 "B group" yet and may never get to that level. I'm very disappointed that the RedBull quest for young talent promotion seems absent. I'm sorry for AT, I'm sorry for Liam who has done more than could be expected.

you ranting yuki has not made a single costly mistake these year.liam only finished one race with yuki and was 40s behind before red flag and at singapore every driver was in conservation mode so its rather difficult to know his true race pace .in monza he couldn't make one stop strategy work .a team cant just make decision on emotions based on just few races.

[BMMR61]

Unfortunately I think that the loan of Lawson to Williams is not a huge option as it's expected Williams will be giving Sargeant an extension. The situation around him is a bit more complicated than the surface. They originally intended Sargeant to be promoted in 2024 and '23 was supposed to be another season of F2.

They promoted Sargeant to F1 due to circumstances - no other option, and team wanted to part with Latifi - knowing he was immature/not ready. So it would now be unfair to not extend him due to rookie errors despite accepting this was likely. And if not extend him then they're essentially not giving him a 'proper' shot at F1 if they've already got '23 down as a development year

Yep, I got that feeling. Logan hasn't been a duck to water though, and never looked quick in F2. His Singapore race looked super rookie to me and I imagined the face-plants in the Williams pit. Oh well sometimes you have to show some faith and they do have data.

[organic]

Unfortunately I think that the loan of Lawson to Williams is not a huge option as it's expected Williams will be giving Sargeant an extension. The situation around him is a bit more complicated than the surface. They originally intended Sargeant to be promoted in 2024 and '23 was supposed to be another season of F2.

They promoted Sargeant to F1 due to circumstances - no other option, and team wanted to part with Latifi - knowing he was immature/not ready. So it would now be unfair to not extend him due to rookie errors despite accepting this was likely. And if not extend him then they're essentially not giving him a 'proper' shot at F1 if they've already got '23 down as a development year

Yep, I got that feeling. Logan hasn't been a duck to water though, and never looked quick in F2. His Singapore race looked super rookie to me and I imagined the face-plants in the Williams pit. Oh well sometimes you have to show some faith and they do have data.

Part of it could be a loss leader for the academy as well. If you show you're willing to bin off your talents after under-delivering on your promise in terms of giving them development time, the best prospects will be less willing to join your academy and the knock-on effect can be felt for a while. Conversely, if you give Sargeant the extra year it shows you're willing to be patient and give your drivers another chance which will increase the attractiveness of your team's academy. Perhaps Marko doesn't believe in this one

[basti313]

Tobi Gruner says...... Hadn't heard of him till now. I've looked at some of his twitter stuff and a lot looks more speculation than inside knowledge. We'll see.
I don't know how much the Honda powertrain connection brings to the Tsunoda future. AM are the future of Honda and RB seemingly downplay Honda to a great extent since their timid withdrawal during the 2021 season. Liam will at this point be extremely lucky to lose out again given he has already shown a better self control in most situations. Given he hasn't crashed the car, he's had a couple of spins, he's been narrowing the outright pace difference to Yuki, he looks to have a decent future. Dr Marko has made some questionable calls and shown a lot of abrasiveness towards his drivers. Favouring Kvyat over Sainz, blaming Ricciardo for the Baku coming together with Max and the loss of trust involved, choosing deVries on the basis of one GP then having a change of heart, and plenty of media lines which undermine trust. I just struggle with Yuki, mainly due to his lack of self control and an apparent lack of racing brain. Yes, he has tidied it up a bit in 2023 but a rookie snapping at his heels with no preparation and simulator work until a few weeks ago??? Year 3 is meant to be where a gauge of a driver's peak ability can be gauged (not saying they have peaked). Yuki just doesn't look to be firmly in the F1 "B group" yet and may never get to that level. I'm very disappointed that the RedBull quest for young talent promotion seems absent. I'm sorry for AT, I'm sorry for Liam who has done more than could be expected.

you ranting yuki has not made a single costly mistake these year.liam only finished one race with yuki and was 40s behind before red flag and at singapore every driver was in conservation mode so its rather difficult to know his true race pace .in monza he couldn't make one stop strategy work .a team cant just make decision on emotions based on just few races.

Still the issue stays...Yuki is low at maximum, maybe not even a B driver yet and to be honest...him not crashing this season is a straw, but there is simply no development, it is rather going backwards as we saw that even Ric was better in Hungary on his first race. I agree that Liam is no gauge, but this does not change the fact that Yuki is just filling a seat until there is a better choice. Let us be realistic...there is 0 chance he will be promoted to RedBull on the current trajectory of his performance.
So the big question is still not clear...why is he even in the seat? Is there a Honda contract giving him the seat?`

If I would be free and would need to choose...I would choose Ric and Law as driver pairing. Not for the reason that Lawson may be faster this season, but for the reason that they need to look into the future and not just fill a seat.

[Wouter]

Still the issue stays...Yuki is low at maximum, maybe not even a B driver yet and to be honest...him not crashing this season is a straw, but there is simply no development, it is rather going backwards as we saw that even Ric was better in Hungary on his first race.

.
" ... he is not even a B driver yet" ???
" ... there is simply no development, it is rather going backwards." ???

Did you even watch a race this year? Yuki made big steps this year. Nothing wrong with his races on Sundays.

[Bill]

Tobi Gruner says...... Hadn't heard of him till now. I've looked at some of his twitter stuff and a lot looks more speculation than inside knowledge. We'll see.
I don't know how much the Honda powertrain connection brings to the Tsunoda future. AM are the future of Honda and RB seemingly downplay Honda to a great extent since their timid withdrawal during the 2021 season. Liam will at this point be extremely lucky to lose out again given he has already shown a better self control in most situations. Given he hasn't crashed the car, he's had a couple of spins, he's been narrowing the outright pace difference to Yuki, he looks to have a decent future. Dr Marko has made some questionable calls and shown a lot of abrasiveness towards his drivers. Favouring Kvyat over Sainz, blaming Ricciardo for the Baku coming together with Max and the loss of trust involved, choosing deVries on the basis of one GP then having a change of heart, and plenty of media lines which undermine trust. I just struggle with Yuki, mainly due to his lack of self control and an apparent lack of racing brain. Yes, he has tidied it up a bit in 2023 but a rookie snapping at his heels with no preparation and simulator work until a few weeks ago??? Year 3 is meant to be where a gauge of a driver's peak ability can be gauged (not saying they have peaked). Yuki just doesn't look to be firmly in the F1 "B group" yet and may never get to that level. I'm very disappointed that the RedBull quest for young talent promotion seems absent. I'm sorry for AT, I'm sorry for Liam who has done more than could be expected.

you ranting yuki has not made a single costly mistake these year.liam only finished one race with yuki and was 40s behind before red flag and at singapore every driver was in conservation mode so its rather difficult to know his true race pace .in monza he couldn't make one stop strategy work .a team cant just make decision on emotions based on just few races.

Still the issue stays...Yuki is low at maximum, maybe not even a B driver yet and to be honest...him not crashing this season is a straw, but there is simply no development, it is rather going backwards as we saw that even Ric was better in Hungary on his first race. I agree that Liam is no gauge, but this does not change the fact that Yuki is just filling a seat until there is a better choice. Let us be realistic...there is 0 chance he will be promoted to RedBull on the current trajectory of his performance.
So the big question is still not clear...why is he even in the seat? Is there a Honda contract giving him the seat?`

If I would be free and would need to choose...I would choose Ric and Law as driver pairing. Not for the reason that Lawson may be faster this season, but for the reason that they need to look into the future and not just fill a seat.

you claim that he has no development is just a reflection on your biases .he was faster that gasly over a race trim last year secound half of season so thats clear development ,against ric he was given a suspect strategy and slow pit stop but he had him comprehensible covered in spa.you guys will have all your sweat dream come true in 2026 .a redbull car powered by its own pu and any driver of you choice just be patient but dont underestimate the role that Honda is playing in redbull success in a track where powered is a not a requirement they were exposed.

[basti313]

Still the issue stays...Yuki is low at maximum, maybe not even a B driver yet and to be honest...him not crashing this season is a straw, but there is simply no development, it is rather going backwards as we saw that even Ric was better in Hungary on his first race.

.
" ... he is not even a B driver yet" ???
" ... there is simply no development, it is rather going backwards." ???

Did you even watch a race this year? Yuki made big steps this year. Nothing wrong with his races on Sundays.

Just slow?
The problem is you simply do not have any race where you can judge his pace but Hungary. And there excluding the first lap incident his race pace was about 20sec slower than Ric. And Ric is a B driver now.

Maybe it is over exaggerating to judge from one race, but where do you want to take any race pace development from?

you claim that he has no development is just a reflection on your biases .

I do not have biases, I mostly do not care about AT or its drivers. I just wonder why Yuki keeps his seat.

he was faster that gasly over a race trim last year secound half of season so thats clear development

Well, that is an interesting claim. On one end people say he crashed by overdriving, now it was more pace? I find one race where he equaled highly motivated Gasly...what races do you have in mind?

you guys will have all your sweat dream come true in 2026 .a redbull car powered by its own pu and any driver of you choice just be patient but dont underestimate the role that Honda is playing in redbull success in a track where powered is a not a requirement they were exposed.

Who is "you guys"?
And I agree, big risk they are taking to move away from Honda.

So what is your take? Is Yuki now covered by a Honda contract or not?

[Bill]

yuki is a Honda development driver is that a serious question. you guys are the people who have irrational dislike of yuki that include sky bunch .some people here but the long and short of it is that f1 has grown as a sport so u cant always insist on europen drivers.yuki was faster than gasly in dutch race,suzuka ,mexico ,abu dhabi .usa and more .he was just more convincing in later part of 2022

[basti313]

yuki is a Honda development driver is that a serious question.

Yes. So you think RedBull has no choice over this seat? That was my question: Is one of the AT cars not always filled with a Honda driver by contract or not?

you guys are the people who have irrational dislike of yuki that include sky bunch .

I actually like Yuki. I do not know why you accuse me of an irrational dislike. I just want to know why and how save he is in the seat.
And I think he will be confirmed for next year this weekend or never.

some people here but the long and short of it is that f1 has grown as a sport so u cant always insist on europen drivers.

Like Lawson and Ricciardo?

yuki was faster than gasly in dutch race,suzuka ,mexico ,abu dhabi .usa and more .he was just more convincing in later part of 2022

Wow, that is a bold statement. It is true that Gasly bottled a few of these qualifyings and took a day off at Suzuka...but the claim Yuki was faster is borderline wrong...for Mexico just wrong as Gasly was virtually well ahead when Yuki crashed.

[djos]

Gasly is a waste of space IMO, he’s in the “better lucky than good” category for me.

[basti313]

Gasly is a waste of space IMO, he’s in the “better lucky than good” category for me.

Well, but these are two different points?
However you call this category of F1 drivers...Gasly is somewhere in the mid range. Maybe for some higher, for some lower....but I would expect him well in the middle.
But that means to me he is not "waste of space", as there are simply no replacements. He is a solid F1 driver and will be for the next years.

This is the discussion on Yuki...I would see his seat next to Stroll and Sargeant in the discussable category. I would never go as far as call it waste of space, but the question is still which argument secures him his seat. For Stroll it is his father, for Yuki is it Honda?

[BMMR61]

I'll come right out with my biases. (1) I'm a Kiwi who followed Lawson from less than privileged beginnings. (2) I have always been irritated by competitors who can't control their temperament. This I believe is Yuki's biggest challenge to becoming an effective F1 driver. Stupid drivers don't win championships and multiple races, Yuki sometimes behaves in a manner that causes people to question his intelligence. "The car is crap" doesn't drive a team forward, I'm trying to simplify for illustration.

I acknowledge that Yuki appeared to turn things around last year when he started to beat Gasly. However Gasly tends to also be adversely affected by emotion that results in serious errors, and I suspect his disaffection with the whole RedBull thing bummed him out and he started to lose his edge. I don't think Yuki is developing in 2023. Yes he became far more consistent, maybe because Nyck was such a non threat to Yuki in raw pace. People started to rate the AT04 the worst car on the grid on account of points scored. Maybe after more context we could surmise the car wasn't that bad, that in fact the drivers weren't driving setup and development effectively. Daniel entered the scene and quickly the AT04 seemed to march forward in competitiveness - this before the big upgrade at Singapore. Liam is good but I don't think he's yet in danger of becoming a superstar, his 11th and 9th places show the car is no dud. So the consistent 10th-11th finishes by Yuki in context of what we've recently seen were no acts of giant killing, especially when we consider Alpine's patchy form and Stroll's failure to turn up.

[BMMR61]

Hey, I read somewhere that Yuki said the lap 1 damage wasn't just a puncture but more serious, something about radiator damage. Anyone have anything more on that? The team just said "damage" I think, and some people have been questioning Yuki's decision to not return the car to the pits.