2023 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Sep 22 - 24

[Juzh]

verstappen q3 lap
https://streamable.com/3qbcqu


piastri q3 lap
https://streamable.com/1gcxbq


leclerc q3 lap
https://streamable.com/oxjydm

[Farnborough]

Barely 4 tenths faster than last year. Those floor reg changes really did a number on cars.

One can see how terrible Pirelli is by looking at the cornering speeds, at the hairpin, of these cars, which are the same of the Super GT one, ~72 km/h Those much heavier GT cars, with narrower tyres, should not be cornering at F1 speeds even on the corners in which downforce is far less relevant

I think pirellis have to be super hard to cope with downforce levels, which in turn is very detrimental to low speed performance. As there's no tyre war there's no incentive to invest massive sums in order to improve overall performance.

They have to be up to the task of holding onto getting toward 1000kg chucked into corner #1 at absolutely flat, along with very high lateral loading on all the high speed corners and particularly 130R....?..no surprise really that the structural resistance (tyre carcass) is not amenable to "slow" speed corner characteristic

Nothing really unusual in that.

Sometimes, you really can't have everything.

[Juzh]

One can see how terrible Pirelli is by looking at the cornering speeds, at the hairpin, of these cars, which are the same of the Super GT one, ~72 km/h Those much heavier GT cars, with narrower tyres, should not be cornering at F1 speeds even on the corners in which downforce is far less relevant

I think pirellis have to be super hard to cope with downforce levels, which in turn is very detrimental to low speed performance. As there's no tyre war there's no incentive to invest massive sums in order to improve overall performance.

They have to be up to the task of holding onto getting toward 1000kg chucked into corner #1 at absolutely flat, along with very high lateral loading on all the high speed corners and particularly 130R....?

130r is not very demanding. Yes, it's high speed, but not very tight, just a kink. There's loads more corners with much higher demands.

[search]

Tyre sets left for the race:

https://i.imgur.com/Z67qVYA.png

How have alpha tauri ended up with 1 set of mediums and hards... everyone's talking about a 2 stop

They gave the other set of mediums away in FP3, so either didn't think they are going to need it, or preferred to prioritize Qualifying nonetheless. In their case this worked out at least and they have a good starting position now, while Stroll wasted the hards in FP3 for nothing.

Alfa Romeo already was down to 1xM and 1xH after yesterday, so for them there was nothing they could do about it anymore.

[Farnborough]

I think pirellis have to be super hard to cope with downforce levels, which in turn is very detrimental to low speed performance. As there's no tyre war there's no incentive to invest massive sums in order to improve overall performance.

They have to be up to the task of holding onto getting toward 1000kg chucked into corner #1 at absolutely flat, along with very high lateral loading on all the high speed corners and particularly 130R....?

130r is not very demanding. Yes, it's high speed, but not very tight, just a kink. There's loads more corners with much higher demands.

Seems like tyre structure vs tyre tread compound is being mixed here.

Peak rotation combined with high lateral loading (that's what 130 R was designed to test) is pretty far out there in tyre construction terms. It just demands a stiffer construction to survive that, contrary to slow speed demands.

[Wouter]

I'm surprised Norris doesn't have consistently more pace over Piastri. It feels like he's less consistent than he was in previous years

Norris has always been overrated, mainly due to him being British. Beaten by Russell in F2, beaten in both 19’ & 20’ by Sainz at McLaren,
and now he’s on the verge of being outshone by, Piastri.
Norris’ reputation massively enhanced by Ricciardo, and the fact he’s a likeable character.

.

All british drivers are insanely overrated because the English media dominates the F1 world, so it´s only natural to have this bias. I´m sure in most other countries their media also insanely hype their drivers, especially places like Brazil, Spain, Italy(trust me, I´ve watched a lot of RAI and they hype everything that is italian. They love to say that Italy has the best cheeses, coffee, wines, olive oils.... and what not), but all other countries are almost irrelevant when it comes to making the mainstream F1 narratives.

Russell is about the same talent as Albon, given how close they were on GP2 and their dominance over Latifi
(eventhough Alex had even bigger gaps to the Canadian).
All British drivers are far, far away from Max and Shal, but the hype is here and it is what it is
(better to not even address the cult religion regarding our "fastest qualifier ever" and the endless narratives worshiping F1´s biggest heroic figure)

.
No wonder Sainz beat rookie Norris (first year in F1) when he joined McLaren and was already in F1 for the 6th year!!!
By the way Lando scored 97 points in his second year, while Sainz scored 105. Not bad for his second year in F1 versus Sainz
who had been in F1 for 7 yrs!

Lando made a mistake during Q3, but so he could still be faster, while Piastri drove a flawless lap (which I think is super good, by the way).

Lando is a very good driver and certainly not overrated. Piastri is also a good driver and, like Lando, will continue to improve.

If Norris is not that good, then Ricciardo is really bad isn't he?!


@Arthur Craft, who is Shal?? If you mean Charles ..... If anyone is overhyped it is Charles!!

[ringo]

I'm surprised Norris doesn't have consistently more pace over Piastri. It feels like he's less consistent than he was in previous years

Norris has always been overrated, mainly due to him being British. Beaten by Russell in F2, beaten in both 19’ & 20’ by Sainz at McLaren, and now he’s on the verge of being outshone by, Piastri. Norris’ reputation massively enhanced by Ricciardo, and the fact he’s a likeable character.

I think whichever route he takes though, he will be exposed. Piastri will become the main man at McLaren, and if he joins RBR, will be bent over by Max.

I do not think Norris is overrated. There is just a limit to how good a driver can drive and both Norris and Piastri are about there. They aren't robots, so we cannot expect the better driver or the worse drive to be better all the time or worse all the time if they are closely matched.
Both Mclaren drivers are really good is the situation we have here and both will be pushing every weekend to be best and it's thin margins. The problem Norris and Piastri face is thar neither can relax and take comfort that rhey have the other under control on any given weekend. Both also can improve next year. This pairing will be the most tense in 2024.

[ringo]

I'm surprised Norris doesn't have consistently more pace over Piastri. It feels like he's less consistent than he was in previous years

Norris has always been overrated, mainly due to him being British. Beaten by Russell in F2, beaten in both 19’ & 20’ by Sainz at McLaren, and now he’s on the verge of being outshone by, Piastri. Norris’ reputation massively enhanced by Ricciardo, and the fact he’s a likeable character.

All british drivers are insanely overrated because the English media dominates the F1 world, so it´s only natural to have this bias. I´m sure in most other countries their media also insanely hype their drivers, especially places like Brazil, Spain, Italy(trust me, I´ve watched a lot of RAI and they hype everything that is italian. They love to say that Italy has the best cheeses, coffee, wines, olive oils.... and what not), but all other countries are almost irrelevant when it comes to making the mainstream F1 narratives.

Russell is about the same talent as Albon, given how close they were on GP2 and their dominance over Latifi (eventhough Alex had even bigger gaps to the Canadian). All British drivers are far, far away from Max and Shal, but the hype is here and it is what it is (better to not even address the cult religion regarding our "fastest qualifier ever" and the endless narratives worshiping F1´s biggest heroic figure)

A very jealous sounding post. I disagree with this theory. The results of the last 30 plus years don't lie regarding the british drivers. They are not overrated. Media attention doesnt = overrated.

[ringo]

verstappen q3 lap
https://streamable.com/3qbcqu


piastri q3 lap
https://streamable.com/1gcxbq


leclerc q3 lap
https://streamable.com/oxjydm

Mclaren is running a lot of downforce, more than ferrrari. Piastri brakes only once in the esses and very a very short stab. Leclerc brakes a few times. Verstappen looks a little slow in the middle of the esses. Piastri took those corners the best.
Throughout his lap he is very sharp on the throttle. This mclaren seems to be very good on traction and braking. Very precise lap there by piastri. It was not perfect however. Max was super smooth with no errors just not as sharp on the pedals.

[napoleon1981]

I think verstappen was keeping the tires alive, saving it there yields 2 tenths out of the triangle. Sharp on the pedals is a bad thing.

[AR3-GP]

I think verstappen was keeping the tires alive, saving it there yields 2 tenths out of the triangle. Sharp on the pedals is a bad thing.

The important thing there is making sure you can open up the corner entry to T7 (i.e move to right hand side of the track) so you can go flat all the way through the apex of T7 since it's a relatively long straight. Verstappen executes this. Piastri is too far to the left due to choosing to carry more speed through T6, and it cost him as he has to lift at the apex of T7. Nothing wrong for Piastri. It's his first time at the circuit so there are things he can learn. He still outqualified his teammate in the same car.

[ringo]

I think verstappen was keeping the tires alive, saving it there yields 2 tenths out of the triangle. Sharp on the pedals is a bad thing.

If you know the car has the grip and you are confident you will get drive i do not think it is bad.

[ringo]

I think verstappen was keeping the tires alive, saving it there yields 2 tenths out of the triangle. Sharp on the pedals is a bad thing.

The important thing there is making sure you can open up the corner entry to T7 (i.e move to right hand side of the track) so you can go flat all the way through the apex of T7 since it's a relatively long straight. Verstappen executes this. Piastri is too far to the left due to choosing to carry more speed through T6, and it cost him as he has to lift at the apex of T7. Nothing wrong for Piastri. It's his first time at the circuit so there are things he can learn. He still outqualified his teammate in the same car.

Yeah this was his mistep but not bad.

[Sevach]

verstappen q3 lap
https://streamable.com/3qbcqu


piastri q3 lap
https://streamable.com/1gcxbq


leclerc q3 lap
https://streamable.com/oxjydm

How much grip the Red Bull has through the esses is just bonkers, in comparison Leclerc is braking everywhere and just has no bite.

And they do that with the best top speed...

[Wouter]