2023 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Sep 22 - 24

[Cs98]

George didn't even have the traction to use the DRS Lewis gave him to fight Sainz. How do you assume he was going to be able to keep Lewis and a faster Sainz behind?

Either Sainz would get Lewis on traction elsewhere and then get George, or Lewis would get George and then Sainz would get George, which isnwhat happened.

Because if you want to make it hard to pass in a DRS train you order them in terms of pace, slowest to fastest. So Lewis was faster than George, but we saw he wasn't fast enough to pass him without George moving aside. And Sainz was slightly faster than Lewis, but not fast enough to pass Lewis. Once you invert Lewis and George you put the slowest car right in front of the fastest car, in dirty air. That's easy for Sainz who also had better straight line speed. Keeping them in order would've likely saved them P6. And if you want to invert you can do it on the final lap.

Carlos was almost getting side by side to Lewis at the hairpin, because Lewis had to go at George's pace.

There was no guarantee that Sainz would stay behind Lewis while they all tootled around at George's dead tyres pace. This is a track where you can overtake all over the place with traction differences.

There was no need for Sainz to even prematurely be in Lewis' DRS in the first place if Merc had the stones to make sure George knew he had to get out of Lewis' way.

This is also ignoring the fact that Lewis was just as close to attacking Charles as he was to defending from Carlos.

I have to disagree, this is a track where it's hard to overtake and you can't overtake "all over the place". Dirty air has a big effect here. Sainz was never close enough to have a dive at Lewis, because he was getting the dirty air from both cars in front, and Lewis was getting a DRS tow making him slippery on the straights. This is how you end up in situations where a car at the back of a DRS train can be several seconds a lap faster than the car at the front, but completely stuck. If the delta between each individual position isn't too big, no one will pass.

Lewis was never attacking Charles. Lewis gained on Charles because he was held up by Russell for a few laps. That pass was never on.

[Juzh]

Palmer's commentary today was maybe the worst he's ever done. He was sulking so much about RB sending perez out again to serve his penalties it was getting nerve wracking. Just say it and then move on with it, there's an overtake happening in front you for christ's sake. Dude was trying to revisit every incident in the last 10 years before finally letting this dump topic go.

[ringo]

As per usual Russel focuses on himself. He was still bitter about the Lewis overtake and defense on him when Lewis had the wing damage to contend with.
At this rate i see Ferrari overtaking Mercedes for P2. Both ferrari mclaren and mercedes have good driver pairings that can bring the cars home bumper to bumper for good double points hauls.
Alonso continues to fade back into the lower midfeild where he has resided since he left Ferrari. His frustrations will get louder and louder until he turns on the team.

[ringo]

Because if you want to make it hard to pass in a DRS train you order them in terms of pace, slowest to fastest. So Lewis was faster than George, but we saw he wasn't fast enough to pass him without George moving aside. And Sainz was slightly faster than Lewis, but not fast enough to pass Lewis. Once you invert Lewis and George you put the slowest car right in front of the fastest car, in dirty air. That's easy for Sainz who also had better straight line speed. Keeping them in order would've likely saved them P6. And if you want to invert you can do it on the final lap.

Carlos was almost getting side by side to Lewis at the hairpin, because Lewis had to go at George's pace.

There was no guarantee that Sainz would stay behind Lewis while they all tootled around at George's dead tyres pace. This is a track where you can overtake all over the place with traction differences.

There was no need for Sainz to even prematurely be in Lewis' DRS in the first place if Merc had the stones to make sure George knew he had to get out of Lewis' way.

This is also ignoring the fact that Lewis was just as close to attacking Charles as he was to defending from Carlos.

I have to disagree, this is a track where it's hard to overtake and you can't overtake "all over the place". Dirty air has a big effect here. Sainz was never close enough to have a dive at Lewis, because he was getting the dirty air from both cars in front, and Lewis was getting a DRS tow making him slippery on the straights. This is how you end up in situations where a car at the back of a DRS train can be several seconds a lap faster than the car at the front, but completely stuck. If the delta between each individual position isn't too big, no one will pass.

Lewis was never attacking Charles. Lewis gained on Charles because he was held up by Russell for a few laps. That pass was never on.

Russel tyres got worst and worst. He could not hold both cars behind. The right decision was made. And should have been done earlier. Mclaren made sure to swap quite early

[Cs98]

Because if you want to make it hard to pass in a DRS train you order them in terms of pace, slowest to fastest. So Lewis was faster than George, but we saw he wasn't fast enough to pass him without George moving aside. And Sainz was slightly faster than Lewis, but not fast enough to pass Lewis. Once you invert Lewis and George you put the slowest car right in front of the fastest car, in dirty air. That's easy for Sainz who also had better straight line speed. Keeping them in order would've likely saved them P6. And if you want to invert you can do it on the final lap.

Interesting analysis but it doesn't work because 1/Merc has a weak top speed 2/Carlos had fresher tyre (if tyres were equal to Lewis a DRS train would've been possible)
We saw that because 1/Carlos was all over Lewis gearbox before George let him through 2/ Even with Lewis DRS we saw Ferrari top speed against Russell. I don't think it would've been so different against Lewis

It was working perfectly before they decided to invert. Of course Sainz was close, you need them close to let them have dirty air for this DRS train strat to work. But he was never close enough in the critical points of the track to actually have an overtake.

[Spoutnik]

Gasly chasing bees

[Cs98]

Russel tyres got worst and worst. He could not hold both cars behind. The right decision was made. And should have been done earlier. Mclaren made sure to swap quite early

He was holding them just fine before the order came.

[chrisc90]

A lack of Inter-team penalties being given affected the result today.

Personally I think that irrespective of whether its between team mates or not, the penalty should stand. IF Lewis was found to have pushed George off today, which in my opinion he did given Georges position alongside (and ahead under braking), Lewis should have got a +5second penalty.....which would have promoted Sainz a position.

[organic]

INTRA-team INTRA INTRA INTRA

Inter-team would be between different teams

[Juzh]

Gasly chasing bees

At first I thought gasly limped over the line when he dropped +4s in last sector so i checked it out and saw this. Did ocon at any point let gasly go before and so they decided to switch back, i'm not sure?
Fortunately they're both french so we can rule out that angle.

[search]

Gasly chasing bees

At first I thought gasly limped over the line when he dropped +4s in last sector so i checked it out and saw this. Did ocon at any point let gasly go before and so they decided to switch back, i'm not sure?
Fortunately they're both french so we can rule out that angle.

yeah, Ocon let him through a couple of laps before, so that Gasly could chase Alonso - who was running at the same speed sth like 10s ahead, obviously completely out of reach. Alpine should have just kept Ocon in front to begin with.

[214270]

Gasly chasing bees

At first I thought gasly limped over the line when he dropped +4s in last sector so i checked it out and saw this. Did ocon at any point let gasly go before and so they decided to switch back, i'm not sure?
Fortunately they're both french so we can rule out that angle.

I don’t think the engineer told GAS that they planned to return positions when he was first let through if he couldn’t catch ALO. Just miscomms at the heart of this

[DDopey]

No worries, Lewis will go to the factory this week and sort it all out. Thats not toxic, thats just the mega level man he is.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/66900355

[Zynerji]

Btw. . RBR should have swapped Yuki and Checo for this race. Sergio is done.

[DGP123]

Sergio is done.

No alternatives. Yuki, Daniel or Liam going in there, does not change the landscape. RB driver programme has been done for a long time too. They either keep it status quo, or go massively outside the box. They won’t want to upset the dynamic, and they’ve won both championships. Therefore, Checo has to depressingly remain for 2024, and we get the same outcome.