2010 cars

[timbo]

I don't know why there's so much talk about how ban for refueling would affect F1. Watch races from 1984 to 1993. Not a crazy difference. No saving fuel runs.
I think teams would add a few fuel saving engine maps via software and that's basically all.

[Miguel]

One question: are we finally getting different tire dimensions next year? What will it be? Thicker rears, thinner fronts or both?

[PNSD]

Just thinner fronts I think was discussed. Thats something I forgot actually... The change in width means an impact on overal balance and aerodynamics. The increased wheelbase to accomodate the fuel cell would have played well with these cars and the current tyre widths.

[machin]

I don't know why there's so much talk about how ban for refueling would affect F1. Watch races from 1984 to 1993. Not a crazy difference. No saving fuel runs.
I think teams would add a few fuel saving engine maps via software and that's basically all.

Exactly... and not just historic F1, but MOST other championships don't allow fuel stops and we don't see any fuel conserving strategies.... GP2... F3.... Formula Ford... Karting... it just doesn't happen. The fact is that petrol weighs so little for a given power output that it simply doesn't make sense to under-fuel a car... the only reason why it might happen at the moment is because people want to shorten their pit stop to make sure they get out infront of another car. But if there is no refuelling then this simply isn't an option any more (unless someone runs out of time before the race to fill the car before the pit lane closes!!!!!!!)

[DaveKillens]

Maybe the term "fuel mileage race" sort of shorted out a few wires in my brain. Many years ago CART experimented with these kinds of races, where basically each car was rationed a specific amount of fuel. Trouble is, the fuel volume was calculated so that a car could not go 100% during the entire race and finish. It was a dismal sight to watch formula cars just circulating around a track doing nothing but laying down consistent laps dictated by fuel burn.
I don't think the tacticians in Formula One will make this mistake, and fuel the cars with enough gas to RACE the entire distance.
I do wish the teams had the option of running a race with just one fuel stop. But considering that they have to run two different tire compounds, and that usually one compound does poor at lasting any respectable distance, that rules it out. Instead, expect nothing but two stop races. Unless someone was willing to gamble on running almost the entire race on one set of tires. Actually, that may suit Trulli.

The front tires will be made narrower. Bridgestone has old tooling for narrower fronts, but no tooling for wider rears. Amazing that where this sport is touted as the peak of racing technology, the tire dimensions are going to be dictated by what some tire manufacturer has left over in their warehouse. Custom designed and built engines, gearboxes, chassis, but not tires.

[timbo]

Maybe the term "fuel mileage race" sort of shorted out a few wires in my brain. Many years ago CART experimented with these kinds of races, where basically each car was rationed a specific amount of fuel.

In 1988 fuel tanks was limited (I believe to 195L) in attempt to trim turbo engines. So that's what they did - not much drama.

[bill shoe]

I don't know why there's so much talk about how ban for refueling would affect F1. Watch races from 1984 to 1993. Not a crazy difference. No saving fuel runs.
I think teams would add a few fuel saving engine maps via software and that's basically all.

My assumption is that current F1 cars are much more highly optimized for packaging and aero than the 93-spec cars. Big fuel tanks didn't really hurt the speed of the 93's like they would hurt the speed of 2010's. I'm thinking in terms of volume and packaging, with weight being only a secondary issue.

A small clarification- I think they were fuel limited with the turbo engines until 1988. Then from 1989 until refueling began (1994?) there was no limit on the amount of fuel they used, they just had to carry it all from the beginning of the race.

I remember Senna running out of fuel just short of the finish once or twice during the 89-93 era. He was pissed!! I think these borderline fuelings were weight issues more than tank capacity issues.

Think of it like this for 2010. Suppose your engine has two fuel settings. One is "qualifying" power where the engine makes absolutely max power regardless of fuel consumption. Two is "race" power where the engine makes 97% as much power but only uses 90% as much fuel to do it. If the driver does the entire race distance with the "race" power setting then this is saving fuel in order to reduce the tank volume (and fuel weight) by 10%. Would you recommend that the designers instead size the tank for qualifying power the entire race?

[Motornic]

I'm still in the dark on if there is going to be no rev limit or if they're sticking with 18k, has this not been settled yet?

[ISLAMATRON]

Maybe the term "fuel mileage race" sort of shorted out a few wires in my brain. Many years ago CART experimented with these kinds of races, where basically each car was rationed a specific amount of fuel. Trouble is, the fuel volume was calculated so that a car could not go 100% during the entire race and finish. It was a dismal sight to watch formula cars just circulating around a track doing nothing but laying down consistent laps dictated by fuel burn.
I don't think the tacticians in Formula One will make this mistake, and fuel the cars with enough gas to RACE the entire distance.
I do wish the teams had the option of running a race with just one fuel stop. But considering that they have to run two different tire compounds, and that usually one compound does poor at lasting any respectable distance, that rules it out. Instead, expect nothing but two stop races. Unless someone was willing to gamble on running almost the entire race on one set of tires. Actually, that may suit Trulli.

The front tires will be made narrower. Bridgestone has old tooling for narrower fronts, but no tooling for wider rears. Amazing that where this sport is touted as the peak of racing technology, the tire dimensions are going to be dictated by what some tire manufacturer has left over in their warehouse. Custom designed and built engines, gearboxes, chassis, but not tires.

I remember those CART races very well, it really wasnt that the teams were not given enough fuel to complete the race... the fuel milage came into the race equation because the teams were given a fuel tank size that required refilling(approx) 1.5 times to complete the race and those teams did not want to make that extra stop for the half fill. There were many occasions when Some teams would employ a rabbit strategy and make that extra half fill and would come up behind the leaders at full speed with max power.

It wasnt that they werent give enough fuel to complete the race, they chose to not put that extra fuel into the car to forgo an extra pit stop. There were some races where the driver stopped just short of the finish line out of gas with a large amount of their allotted fuel still sitting in the pit tanks.

Those were the golden era of CART with Zanardi, Andretti, Vassar, Tracy, Franchittii, and a little later Montoya battling out... In my estimation the CART series put together a great formula for outstanding racing. The drivers could win using either fuel strategy, and some lost out using the fuel consevation like the famous 1997 detoit race.

Enjoy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzOZIKwkF3g

[WhiteBlue]

Poor Mark Blundell! That bloke must have been tempted to push his car over the line. I think I have seen Senna try this in Hockenheim once. I'm not sure it was him, it could have been Prost as well.

The other classic was Jean Alesi not comming in for fuel and stopping mid way in a race.

[Giblet]

That was great I remember that race. Greg Moore was born and grew up down the street from me here in BC. It was nice having a local boy to cheer on, and watch at the local race here in Vancouver.

Such a tragic death as well.... we may have been enjoying his talents here in F1 by now.

[Richard]

drivers will take turns in the front or be in a peloton to save fuel and the last 3 lap will be like the end of a sprint?

I thought cars that stay close together for a long time knacker their tyres and use up more fuel. So slipstreaming/drafting probably isn't a good idea. Is it true that F1 cars are more efficient in clean air?

[Richard]

Amazing that where this sport is touted as the peak of racing technology, the tire dimensions are going to be dictated by what some tire manufacturer has left over in their warehouse. Custom designed and built engines, gearboxes, chassis, but not tires.

Isn't that the case for all engineering design? We rarely have a blank sheet of paper, and its much more interesting when we have these arbitrarily limits.

For example, many of the formula characteristics and circuits are due to the arbitrary shape of the early tracks, especially the characteristics of the standard perimeter road for WW2 air bases (ie Silverstone).

Or how about the bespoke high tech engineering behind the application of a 2 inch wooden plank to the undertray.

My pint is that if the tyre sizes are arbitrary, then it's just another constraint to challenge the designers, and that makes it a more interesting engineering problem

[PlatinumZealot]

This is my take on the fuel tank...

Why would you want to save fuel? LOL

Don't you want it to finish faster? heh lol..

Please note! I am not talking about the overall engine fuel efficiency here, just about switching maps and whatnot.

Unless your car is like stuck behind a safety car for 10 laps; I say go all out!! In fact You can run the engine at 110% power with the full tank and when the tank is near empty you turn it down to 100% power

[jonathan189]

This idea of underfuelling cars sounds very strange.

The teams will use software to optimize their race pace, and, while I can't calculate right now what the numbers will be, I would have thought that the optimum strategy will be to give it 100% for the full race distance.

You could save a bit of fuel by easing off in the last few laps, but intuitively the easing off would increase your total race time more than would the extra fuel capacity. After all, it takes many laps of serious economy driving just to save one lap's worth of fuel. But carrying that extra lap's worth will only add a fraction of a second to your laptime.