2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[CHT]

All things being equal, an engine is more efficient the hotter it runs, provided its material properties can tolerate the conditions. So if Merc powerplant can be run relatively hotter, they could easily adopt redbull-like aero philosophy, yet maintain smaller radiator apertures and get the best of both worlds.

I therefore don't buy the speculation that a perceived need to run the engine hotter led to zero pod. It is totally conceivable that the reverse occurred, i.e., a desire for tighter body work influenced engine design.

I do however, wonder if merc failed to accurately project the impact of badge board removal from the current rule-set. It seems Newey fully grasped the implications and correctly focused on using the bodywork to generate sufficient outwash and do away with the problem. Merc seems to have accepted a compromise of some dirty air over the diffuser, assuming shear mass flow afforded by zero pod concept would sufficiently compensate for laminar flow shortcomings. Indeed the compromise seems to pay off at high altitude/low pressure, where shear mass flow is critical. Everywhere else, the dirty air bites.

It should be the other way around. The engine design is to enable Merc to run a tighter body package with zero pod, not having zero pod so they can run the engine hotter.

On the part about running the engine hotter, that is from the interview talking about next year's car and the advantage of running the engine harder. Is there an optimal operating temp for engine?

[georgekyr]

One more aspect we have not touched upon is that the optimization of the cooling of the engine is not bound by limits in the wind tunnel. This is why Red Bull has made 3 upgrades to the cooling this year. Of course, this can also improve the overall aero since there is no limit on the time. Maybe Merc is using the same trick and highlights its work on complete redesign of the cooling to essentially get partial unlimited wind tunnel time (with the restrictions of what you exactly test during the wind tunnel runs for cooling).

[rifrafs2kees]

The governing body have 24/7 camera access to all the wind tunnels. Gaming the system of allocated hours for bodywork windtunnel aero is likely to be easily detected, with punitive measures making the endeavor not worthwhile.

That's not to say red bull hasn't gained aero advantage from efficient engine cooling. If we assume they have, evidentiary result is that tiny frontal radiator inlets, i.e. they may have managed to reduce both external and internal drag.

[Hammerfist]

I don’t anticipate them being able to run the engine harder due to better cooling add up to much to be honest. Perhaps they won’t always be among the worst in trap speeds but we all know the car has major handling issues and more power won’t help with that.

[AR3-GP]

Seeing that most teams have pseudo high downforce configurations here in Qatar, I think Mercedes could have a decent weekend here?

[j_ste]

Seeing that most teams have pseudo high downforce configurations here in Qatar, I think Mercedes could have a decent weekend here?

Fast turns. Not usually a good thing

[Luscion]

Seeing that most teams have pseudo high downforce configurations here in Qatar, I think Mercedes could have a decent weekend here?

Fast turns. Not usually a good thing

I think they should do good here, its mostly high speed corners with a high downforce setup, and correct me if im wrong but last time they ran a high downforce setup on a high speed corner track was Barcelona and they were quick there.

[j_ste]

Seeing that most teams have pseudo high downforce configurations here in Qatar, I think Mercedes could have a decent weekend here?

Fast turns. Not usually a good thing

I think they should do good here, its mostly high speed corners with a high downforce setup, and correct me if im wrong but last time they ran a high downforce setup on a high speed corner track was Barcelona and they were quick there.

Silverstone...kinda. Plus, Suzuka is more HF leaning than LF.

Sector three and the long straight will be a problem, IMO

[AR3-GP]

Fast turns. Not usually a good thing

I think they should do good here, its mostly high speed corners with a high downforce setup, and correct me if im wrong but last time they ran a high downforce setup on a high speed corner track was Barcelona and they were quick there.

Silverstone...kinda. Plus, Suzuka is more HF leaning than LF.

Sector three and the long straight will be a problem, IMO

I suspect it because Mercedes is most competitive when everyone has high downforce rear wings. The others pay a similar price to Mercedes on the straights when in high downforce config. It's the lower downforce trims where Mercedes is exposed because the others gain more on the straights in the low and medium downforce wings.

[pursue_one's]

- No support races
- Sprint format
- Race track has been fully resurfaced
- Aggressive kerbs

Let's see how it goes...

[dans79]

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1037381/1 ... y-mercedes

Speaking ahead of this weekend’s Qatar Grand Prix, Russell hinted that he was to blame for Mercedes not having a firmer grip on second behind Red Bull.

“It’ll be close towards the end of the season,” he said. “There have been missed opportunities on my side this season. We should’ve had it sewn up already.

“But I’m confident we can secure that while still on the journey, putting huge emphasis on next year’s car. P2 is very important but making sure we hit the ground running next season is more important.”

[organic]

I think if you take the Singapore, Australia points it already looks very sewn up

But Ferrari have also given away quite a lot of points - a podium of their own due to engine failure for instance. So going down the corridor of what-ifs doesn't necessarily make things better for Merc

I take George's point though. He's left more on the table than Lewis, but he's comparing himself to one of the greats of the sport. Difficult not to come up short h2h. And that is part of why he underperforms - desperately trying to beat/outscore his teammate

Speaking of the fight for p2, is anyone aware through rumour etc as to the extent/nature of the upgrades that will come at COTA?

[pursue_one's]

I think if you take the Singapore, Australia points it already looks very sewn up

But Ferrari have also given away quite a lot of points - a podium of their own due to engine failure for instance. So going down the corridor of what-ifs doesn't necessarily make things better for Merc

I take George's point though. He's left more on the table than Lewis, but he's comparing himself to one of the greats of the sport. Difficult not to come up short h2h. And that is part of why he underperforms - desperately trying to beat/outscore his teammate

Speaking of the fight for p2, is anyone aware through rumour etc as to the extent/nature of the upgrades that will come at COTA?

This is all I know.

Final major upgrade package of the year at the United States Grand Prix.
The team isn't necessarily expecting a big step in the lap times but the new parts should provide answers to many questions.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... atar-2023/

[dans79]

I've read they are supposed to have a new spec floor. If thats means an actual new floor, or just updated edge treatments is anyone's guess!

[dans79]

I take George's point though. He's left more on the table than Lewis, but he's comparing himself to one of the greats of the sport. Difficult not to come up short h2h. And that is part of why he underperforms - desperately trying to beat/outscore his teammate

To quote Dirty Harry, "A man's got to know his limitations".

Imo, A lot of the young drivers seem to not grasp this concept. Instead of learning where they are deficient in on one way or another, and then learning how to get better, they just stubbornly carry on doing what they have done in the past.

In Singapore for example, George did not alter his lines nearly enough (imo) when he was stuck behind Lando. He did very little to cool the pu/brakes/tires, he stayed right on Lando's gearbox even when on sections of the track where it is basically impossible to pass. If he had altered his lines more he still might not have got past, but chances are he doesn't crash out either.