2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[SmallSoldier]

No one suggested Lando isnt great or the driver we want, just an area that needs improvement to be able to compete with the very best, that my friend is scope creep.

There's nothing wrong with loving a driver but recognising areas that can be improved and it doesn't mean you want to get rid of him!

Not disagreeing with you, I hope he does improves and continues to grow… And I’m inclined to think that he will… But the reality is (as have been pointed out before) that all drivers make mistakes and the more you push, the more mistakes you will make… I’m afraid I don’t have any actual data to make an statement in regards to who made more mistakes between the likes of Hamilton, Max, Alonso and Lando from a percentage perspective… But I can point out a few if I had to when they were “under pressure” from another driver… The point that was been made it’s a valid one, when a driver is in a dominant car, with a team mate that can’t match his speed, they are less prone to mistakes because they don’t have to push that hard… But we’ve seeing Hamilton make mistakes when Nico was a threat to him, we’ve seeing Max make mistakes when he didn’t had the dominant car he has today (maybe why he was nicknamed Crashtappen for a while)… Alonso made several mistakes in his stint with Ferrari (not fair to probably make an assessment on his second stint in McLaren)… On the other hand, we see them shine when they are not challenged, like Lewis with Bottas, Max with Perez, Alonso with Stroll.

Today was probably the first time since the new regulations started that McLaren had the possibility to be on pole, but the only way to do so was to drive 100/100, the car doesn’t yet have that pace advantage to allow them to fight for it for anything else… It didn’t work and not because of a huge mistake, simply caught out while pushing… I actually praise them for giving it a go, they don’t know when the next opportunity will show up.

Hungary was a chance at pole and he did bugger that one up, but as I say, this is the practise run. Next year, all being well, it gets serious.

And to be honest sometimes it is the pressure that helps people really find their strength and I hope he does nail it.

On a side note, having Piastri to push him, assuming he continues to get close, will only help the two get better and force them to be the very best they can.

Absolutely, Piastri is the best thing that could have happened to Lando and viceversa… Having a team mate that may be faster in certain parts of the lap, allows them to try and either copy or find that time on their own laps, which eventually makes them both potentially faster… A big disparity between drivers doesn’t help anyone.

And my initial comment regarding pushing hard, was because people seem to think that it would have been easier to just slot P2-P3 when not pushing… I’m afraid that’s not how it works, either you commit to push or you take it easy and the difference in lap time will be big between the two…

[mwillems]

Aside From todays mistake of not setting a Q3 time:

Jeddah - Hit the wall
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula- ... n-29495300

Belgium - Destroyed the floor in Qualy
https://racingnews365.com/norris-destro ... ng-mistake

Too Many Mistakes over the lap, cost pole - Hungary
https://www.grandprix247.com/2023/07/22 ... ualifying/


Austria is one where you can argue he might be being hard

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... s-beatable

4 Poor sessions and 1 where he might have done better but might be being hard, you rarely see this from top drivers even when pushing hard I'm afraid, the guy has some work to do.
4 poor sessions is 1/5th of the seasons qualy, to put that into perspective.

And that is from a quick google, I haven't gone into detail to see if I can find more.

I correct myself, 4 poor sessions in the 18 so far, a big set of mistakes in 1 in every 4.5 sessions.

But that's perfectly fine I guess!

Edit:
I'm remembering also that at Suzuka half of the Q3 players improved their final laps, Lando and Oscar were two of the 5 that didn't, sadly, despite the track improving.

[mwillems]

Not disagreeing with you, I hope he does improves and continues to grow… And I’m inclined to think that he will… But the reality is (as have been pointed out before) that all drivers make mistakes and the more you push, the more mistakes you will make… I’m afraid I don’t have any actual data to make an statement in regards to who made more mistakes between the likes of Hamilton, Max, Alonso and Lando from a percentage perspective… But I can point out a few if I had to when they were “under pressure” from another driver… The point that was been made it’s a valid one, when a driver is in a dominant car, with a team mate that can’t match his speed, they are less prone to mistakes because they don’t have to push that hard… But we’ve seeing Hamilton make mistakes when Nico was a threat to him, we’ve seeing Max make mistakes when he didn’t had the dominant car he has today (maybe why he was nicknamed Crashtappen for a while)… Alonso made several mistakes in his stint with Ferrari (not fair to probably make an assessment on his second stint in McLaren)… On the other hand, we see them shine when they are not challenged, like Lewis with Bottas, Max with Perez, Alonso with Stroll.

Today was probably the first time since the new regulations started that McLaren had the possibility to be on pole, but the only way to do so was to drive 100/100, the car doesn’t yet have that pace advantage to allow them to fight for it for anything else… It didn’t work and not because of a huge mistake, simply caught out while pushing… I actually praise them for giving it a go, they don’t know when the next opportunity will show up.

Hungary was a chance at pole and he did bugger that one up, but as I say, this is the practise run. Next year, all being well, it gets serious.

And to be honest sometimes it is the pressure that helps people really find their strength and I hope he does nail it.

On a side note, having Piastri to push him, assuming he continues to get close, will only help the two get better and force them to be the very best they can.

Absolutely, Piastri is the best thing that could have happened to Lando and viceversa… Having a team mate that may be faster in certain parts of the lap, allows them to try and either copy or find that time on their own laps, which eventually makes them both potentially faster… A big disparity between drivers doesn’t help anyone.

And my initial comment regarding pushing hard, was because people seem to think that it would have been easier to just slot P2-P3 when not pushing… I’m afraid that’s not how it works, either you commit to push or you take it easy and the difference in lap time will be big between the two…

Yeah you have to go for it each time, it may seem like they don't push on the 1st Q3 lap, but that is often just used tires.

I don't know if the wind got Lando twice today, I'm inclined to say not, but it's done now.

[Dafnalina]

Aside From todays mistake of not setting a Q3 time:

Jeddah - Hit the wall
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula- ... n-29495300

Belgium - Destroyed the floor in Qualy
https://racingnews365.com/norris-destro ... ng-mistake

Too Many Mistakes over the lap, cost pole - Hungary
https://www.grandprix247.com/2023/07/22 ... ualifying/


Austria is one where you can argue he might be being hard

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... s-beatable

4 Poor sessions and 1 where he might have done better but might be being hard, you rarely see this from top drivers even when pushing hard I'm afraid, the guy has some work to do.
4 poor sessions is 1/5th of the seasons qualy, to put that into perspective.

And that is from a quick google, I haven't gone into detail to see if I can find more.

I correct myself, 4 poor sessions in the 18 so far, a big set of mistakes in 1 in every 4.5 sessions.

But that's perfectly fine I guess!

Edit:
I'm remembering also that at Suzuka half of the Q3 players improved their final laps, Lando and Oscar were two of the 5 that didn't, sadly, despite the track improving.

I would add Monza, where he would set good laps and then get way too close to the cars in front to try and get a tow. That was as bad as today imo.

[mwillems]

Aside From todays mistake of not setting a Q3 time:

Jeddah - Hit the wall
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula- ... n-29495300

Belgium - Destroyed the floor in Qualy
https://racingnews365.com/norris-destro ... ng-mistake

Too Many Mistakes over the lap, cost pole - Hungary
https://www.grandprix247.com/2023/07/22 ... ualifying/


Austria is one where you can argue he might be being hard

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... s-beatable

4 Poor sessions and 1 where he might have done better but might be being hard, you rarely see this from top drivers even when pushing hard I'm afraid, the guy has some work to do.
4 poor sessions is 1/5th of the seasons qualy, to put that into perspective.

And that is from a quick google, I haven't gone into detail to see if I can find more.

I correct myself, 4 poor sessions in the 18 so far, a big set of mistakes in 1 in every 4.5 sessions.

But that's perfectly fine I guess!

Edit:
I'm remembering also that at Suzuka half of the Q3 players improved their final laps, Lando and Oscar were two of the 5 that didn't, sadly, despite the track improving.

I would add Monza, where he would set good laps and then get way too close to the cars in front to try and get a tow. That was as bad as today imo.

I can't remember Monza at all for some reason, I have no recollection of qualifying there at all. Can it be as bad as not setting a representative time in Q3? He got 9th from what I can see and was consistently in that ballpark throughout the session, so this might be one of the ones where he was complaining about himself but actually did the best he could?

[Dafnalina]

I correct myself, 4 poor sessions in the 18 so far, a big set of mistakes in 1 in every 4.5 sessions.

But that's perfectly fine I guess!

Edit:
I'm remembering also that at Suzuka half of the Q3 players improved their final laps, Lando and Oscar were two of the 5 that didn't, sadly, despite the track improving.

I would add Monza, where he would set good laps and then get way too close to the cars in front to try and get a tow. That was as bad as today imo.

I can't remember Monza at all for some reason, I have no recollection of qualifying there at all. Can it be as bad as not setting a representative time in Q3? He got 9th from what I can see and was consistently in that ballpark throughout the session, so this might be one of the ones where he was complaining about himself but actually did the best he could?

No, he was only in that ballpark after consistently ruining his 2nd lap of every session due to dirty air trying to get a tow. Bue yeah, it's not worse than not setting a lap. If only he had set a lap today, at least he would start closer to Oscar.

The only thing I'm happy about is that we'll probably have great pace and I don't think tyre deg will be that bad during the race.

[FittingMechanics]

I have no issue with a driver making mistakes - it happens. But it does irk me that he made so many mistakes today. He lost at least 4 laps due to track limits today.

In Q1 - run 1 he lost his first lap, then on second lap was again over the limit and the team pulled him in.
In Q3 he lost his first lap, then he lost his second (last) lap as well.

I think he lost a lap in Q2 as well, but I am not sure. That is at least three new softs.
I am sure he is hard on himself as well. Usually he doesn't do these mistakes, maybe one but not 4.

[organic]

Piastri has outqualified Lando at 4 of the last 5 races where they each had the latest upgrades. I think this pressure can be partly to blame for Lando making mistakes now more than ever

It's a shame for the team, but the drivers pushing each other is inevitably good and will pay dividends. Has already really given both are securing nice results.

[Stu]

…
It's a shame for the team, but the drivers pushing each other is inevitably good and will pay dividends. Has already really given both are securing nice results.

As far as progressing with the car development goes it would be preferable to finish behind Aston in the WCC.

[mwillems]

Piastri has outqualified Lando at 4 of the last 5 races where they each had the latest upgrades. I think this pressure can be partly to blame for Lando making mistakes now more than ever

It's a shame for the team, but the drivers pushing each other is inevitably good and will pay dividends. Has already really given both are securing nice results.

A lot of the bigger mistakes come prior to this period of pressure from Oscar. Lando being beaten in Q at Suzuka was down to Oscars fresh engine also. But I do think as I said previously that two close drivers will push each other to achieve more. In Qualy they do now appear as equals.

Next year is when in theory these mistakes can really cost us and we can chalk this up to a development year for everyone.

But my view is that this consistency of pushing the car to the limit is not something that has just manifested since Oscar got close, or just even since the start of this year.

[MCLvamos]

Aside From todays mistake of not setting a Q3 time:

Jeddah - Hit the wall
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula- ... n-29495300

Belgium - Destroyed the floor in Qualy
https://racingnews365.com/norris-destro ... ng-mistake

Too Many Mistakes over the lap, cost pole - Hungary
https://www.grandprix247.com/2023/07/22 ... ualifying/


Austria is one where you can argue he might be being hard

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... s-beatable

4 Poor sessions and 1 where he might have done better but might be being hard, you rarely see this from top drivers even when pushing hard I'm afraid, the guy has some work to do.
4 poor sessions is 1/5th of the seasons qualy, to put that into perspective.

And that is from a quick google, I haven't gone into detail to see if I can find more.

I correct myself, 4 poor sessions in the 18 so far, a big set of mistakes in 1 in every 4.5 sessions.

But that's perfectly fine I guess!

Edit:
I'm remembering also that at Suzuka half of the Q3 players improved their final laps, Lando and Oscar were two of the 5 that didn't, sadly, despite the track improving.

So 3 misjudgments where he didn't total the car in any way are "major errors". And the Hungary one is EXTREMELY harsh, he still stuck it P3 ahead of his teammate. You don't see Lando binning it in the wall like Leclerc or Russell and, considering how few mistakes he's made over the last few years, I think we can cut him some slack with a few scruffy mistakes. Im sure as the car improves he will cut these out even more.

[search]

I don't really think it was about pressure yesterday. Norris wanted to take the Pole, and while going for it so, made a mistake.

Personally I think it also was the right thing to do. Sure, it'll cost the team a couple of points in the fight for 4th, but in the end, McLaren will take it easily anyway, while this weekend probably is/was the best chance for a pole or even a win.

[mwillems]

Aside From todays mistake of not setting a Q3 time:

Jeddah - Hit the wall
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula- ... n-29495300

Belgium - Destroyed the floor in Qualy
https://racingnews365.com/norris-destro ... ng-mistake

Too Many Mistakes over the lap, cost pole - Hungary
https://www.grandprix247.com/2023/07/22 ... ualifying/


Austria is one where you can argue he might be being hard

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... s-beatable

4 Poor sessions and 1 where he might have done better but might be being hard, you rarely see this from top drivers even when pushing hard I'm afraid, the guy has some work to do.
4 poor sessions is 1/5th of the seasons qualy, to put that into perspective.

And that is from a quick google, I haven't gone into detail to see if I can find more.

I correct myself, 4 poor sessions in the 18 so far, a big set of mistakes in 1 in every 4.5 sessions.

But that's perfectly fine I guess!

Edit:
I'm remembering also that at Suzuka half of the Q3 players improved their final laps, Lando and Oscar were two of the 5 that didn't, sadly, despite the track improving.

So 3 misjudgments where he didn't total the car in any way are "major errors". And the Hungary one is EXTREMELY harsh, he still stuck it P3 ahead of his teammate. You don't see Lando binning it in the wall like Leclerc or Russell and, considering how few mistakes he's made over the last few years, I think we can cut him some slack with a few scruffy mistakes. Im sure as the car improves he will cut these out even more.

It's not about slack, it is about an honest appraisal, and it could be a lot better.

[MCLvamos]

I have no issue with a driver making mistakes - it happens. But it does irk me that he made so many mistakes today. He lost at least 4 laps due to track limits today.

In Q1 - run 1 he lost his first lap, then on second lap was again over the limit and the team pulled him in.
In Q3 he lost his first lap, then he lost his second (last) lap as well.

I think he lost a lap in Q2 as well, but I am not sure. That is at least three new softs.
I am sure he is hard on himself as well. Usually he doesn't do these mistakes, maybe one but not 4.

agreed, a rare off-day for Lando. I hope he bounces back well today and gives us a nice show with a comeback drive (to P2 ) on Sunday

[MCLvamos]

I correct myself, 4 poor sessions in the 18 so far, a big set of mistakes in 1 in every 4.5 sessions.

But that's perfectly fine I guess!

Edit:
I'm remembering also that at Suzuka half of the Q3 players improved their final laps, Lando and Oscar were two of the 5 that didn't, sadly, despite the track improving.

So 3 misjudgments where he didn't total the car in any way are "major errors". And the Hungary one is EXTREMELY harsh, he still stuck it P3 ahead of his teammate. You don't see Lando binning it in the wall like Leclerc or Russell and, considering how few mistakes he's made over the last few years, I think we can cut him some slack with a few scruffy mistakes. Im sure as the car improves he will cut these out even more.

It's not about slack, it is about an honest appraisal, and it could be a lot better.

ok fair, upon reflection it has been an unusually scruffy year for Lando. But he has still been one of the most reliable and impressive drivers this year.