2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Stu]

What is his driving style because mercedes have been multiple cars with differing strengths over the past decade... and he has largely managed to get the most out of all of them.

Even this current thing, which he openly hates.

Ultimately, if you have something that can win. Then its up to you...nobody wants something that is comfortable and slow. 17 years of doing this thing, I think he has proven he knows what to do with a winning package

If the current car was setting the pace (or if there was no MV - see the alternative championship thread…), would this car be ‘hated’, or would it just be considered to be another ‘diva’???

If "there was no Max" is a bold insinuation that Perez won't perform better when Max is gone.

Would make a good topic in the RedBull thread.

But to answer your point... Yes the car would stull be hated because even when pushed it falls behind other cars in qualifying. Race pace might be better for the Ferrari and Aston of they weren't stretching out their hands to catch RedBull too.

For a view on no MV in ‘23, read this…
viewtopic.php?t=31228

[Cs98]

But GR didnt finish 3rd in Singapore, LH did, and only team orders kept him in front of LH till he hit the wall, But charles lost 3 places under the Safety car double stacking, so he should have finished 2nd, which puts both Mercs out of the podium places.... Unless we cherry picking which events / mistakes / penaltys and so on we are counting like.... so if GR was supposed to finish 5 th taking out mistakes / penatlys / walls / team orders. then he doesnt lose " that many points " from his close encounter with the wall, and both Ferraris finish in front.....

The entire point of the thought experiment is to eliminate driver errors to better isolate the speed of the car. The Merc was yet again faster than the Ferrari in Singapore, for the same reason it has been faster all season, better tyre wear. And your theory about team orders is made up, it's Singapore, good luck passing the same car on the same tyres.

[Spoutnik]

But GR didnt finish 3rd in Singapore, LH did, and only team orders kept him in front of LH till he hit the wall, But charles lost 3 places under the Safety car double stacking, so he should have finished 2nd, which puts both Mercs out of the podium places.... Unless we cherry picking which events / mistakes / penaltys and so on we are counting like.... so if GR was supposed to finish 5 th taking out mistakes / penatlys / walls / team orders. then he doesnt lose " that many points " from his close encounter with the wall, and both Ferraris finish in front.....

The entire point of the thought experiment is to eliminate driver errors to better isolate the speed of the car. The Merc was yet again faster than the Ferrari in Singapore, for the same reason it has been faster all season, better tyre wear. And your theory about team orders is made up, it's Singapore, good luck passing the same car on the same tyres.

Yes and being faster on a street circuit is useless as Sainz started on pole and George lost out to Leclerc at the start, so what's the point. We can't even now if Norris was faster as he wasn't in clear air.
Still the only race were Merc were clear cut 2nd fastest was Spain, other than that (???) while Ferrari was very often 2nd fastest.

[Mr5in1]

Generally interested to see where the final floor update will put Mercedes in the current pecking order. I see many people talking about the median performance but I prefer to look over the last 3 or 4 races and to me it seems Mercedes are 3rd or 4th fastest after Red Bull and McLaren and about the same as Ferrari.

Factor into this the next set of tracks which should suit the Mercedes (generally front limited - COTA / Mexico / Sao Paulo) it should be interesting to see how it all unfolds.

[Mosin123]

But GR didnt finish 3rd in Singapore, LH did, and only team orders kept him in front of LH till he hit the wall, But charles lost 3 places under the Safety car double stacking, so he should have finished 2nd, which puts both Mercs out of the podium places.... Unless we cherry picking which events / mistakes / penaltys and so on we are counting like.... so if GR was supposed to finish 5 th taking out mistakes / penatlys / walls / team orders. then he doesnt lose " that many points " from his close encounter with the wall, and both Ferraris finish in front.....

The entire point of the thought experiment is to eliminate driver errors to better isolate the speed of the car. The Merc was yet again faster than the Ferrari in Singapore, for the same reason it has been faster all season, better tyre wear. And your theory about team orders is made up, it's Singapore, good luck passing the same car on the same tyres.

Right so this thought experiment eliminates all GR errors, but not those of every one else?

So the entire point of the thought experiment is to cross out GR's mistakes to put him 3rd, but not forgetting all the others of every one else. OK got you, So Sainz who finished 1st, and started 1st was slower than the cars he finished in front of? Merc only got close to 2nd and first because they pitted for fresh faster tyres at the end after a safety car ( Caused by a mistake no? ) and Charles only lost 2nd because he got caught in his teams mistake and caused him to have a long pit stop because of a safety car ( Again caused by a mistake ) so in all this eliminating mistakes we are counting every single one, but GR hitting the wall???

Talk about selectively apply mistakes to suit ones agenda.

[search]

Factor into this the next set of tracks which should suit the Mercedes (generally front limited - COTA / Mexico / Sao Paulo) it should be interesting to see how it all unfolds.

should be interesting indeed, also as McLaren probably benefitted a bit from the fast, flowing tracks recently.

Getting over the bumps will likely be a key to success at COTA, but contrary to what many seem to believe, I'd tend to say it's normally one of the strengths of the Mercedes. Last season it was the complete opposite, of course, but that's not a pattern I saw this year anymore.

[Luscion]

Generally interested to see where the final floor update will put Mercedes in the current pecking order. I see many people talking about the median performance but I prefer to look over the last 3 or 4 races and to me it seems Mercedes are 3rd or 4th fastest after Red Bull and McLaren and about the same as Ferrari.

Factor into this the next set of tracks which should suit the Mercedes (generally front limited - COTA / Mexico / Sao Paulo) it should be interesting to see how it all unfolds.

FDataAnalysis on twitter pointed out that if the floor works and increases downforce, theres a possibility it could allow Merc to run less loaded rear wings which would help with their drag issues, they should benefit from the thinner air in Mexico and Brazil in some way regardless though

[AR3-GP]

Generally interested to see where the final floor update will put Mercedes in the current pecking order. I see many people talking about the median performance but I prefer to look over the last 3 or 4 races and to me it seems Mercedes are 3rd or 4th fastest after Red Bull and McLaren and about the same as Ferrari.

Factor into this the next set of tracks which should suit the Mercedes (generally front limited - COTA / Mexico / Sao Paulo) it should be interesting to see how it all unfolds.

FDataAnalysis on twitter pointed out that if the floor works and increases downforce, theres a possibility it could allow Merc to run less loaded rear wings which would help with their drag issues, they should benefit from the thinner air in Mexico and Brazil in some way regardless though

At this stage of the season, it’s very unlikely that Mercedes will bring a new rear wing, because of the cost cap and focus on next year and the steps between their wings are too big to contemplate exchanging them.

[Luscion]

Generally interested to see where the final floor update will put Mercedes in the current pecking order. I see many people talking about the median performance but I prefer to look over the last 3 or 4 races and to me it seems Mercedes are 3rd or 4th fastest after Red Bull and McLaren and about the same as Ferrari.

Factor into this the next set of tracks which should suit the Mercedes (generally front limited - COTA / Mexico / Sao Paulo) it should be interesting to see how it all unfolds.

FDataAnalysis on twitter pointed out that if the floor works and increases downforce, theres a possibility it could allow Merc to run less loaded rear wings which would help with their drag issues, they should benefit from the thinner air in Mexico and Brazil in some way regardless though

At this stage of the season, it’s very unlikely that Mercedes will bring a new rear wing, because of the cost cap and focus on next year and the steps between their wings are too big to contemplate exchanging them.

would they have to bring a new wing or could they not just use their current wings and modify them?

[chrisc90]

I thought someone said the floor downforce was already a bit much? Or ‘peaky’. I can’t remember exactly as been a lot said but I’m sure I’ve read it somewhere

[Luscion]

I thought someone said the floor downforce was already a bit much? Or ‘peaky’. I can’t remember exactly as been a lot said but I’m sure I’ve read it somewhere

Not sure but Allison did say in the podcast the floor update is for producing downforce in the right places and for the W14 to be resistant to bouncing which happens when you start adding downforce to the ground effect cars

[f1jcw]

I thought someone said the floor downforce was already a bit much? Or ‘peaky’. I can’t remember exactly as been a lot said but I’m sure I’ve read it somewhere

I thought that was last years car and this years had lost rear downforce, with last years, though having a lot of downforce was too peaky.

[dans79]

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/merce ... /10506593/

James Allison says that a particular effort has been thrown at trying to improve the handling and balance of the W14.

He says that the through-corner characteristic of its current challenger are far from ideal in providing its drivers with the confidence they need.

"Bread and butter downforce is always a good thing,” he told the Mercedes website about improvements being planned.

“We are also trying to make the car more reassuring for the drivers when they initially turn in. It feels too reactive.

“And then when they get to the apex they have the opposite problem, where we want it to bite at the front and it doesn't. It's unstable when you first turn the wheel and then annoyingly dead when they get to the apex. We want it the other way around. That's what we are working on."

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... zloec.html

Mercedes are now set to bring an upgraded floor to Austin and, speaking to Tom Clarkson and Damon Hill on the F1 Nation podcast earlier this week, Allison addressed whether the update was just to give Mercedes more pace for the final few races of the season or to help with their design for the 2024 campaign.

"Neither of those things," Allison explained. "It should be good at any circuit for the remainder of the year. It’s not transformative, [it] should be about a tenth of a second.

"It’s in the direction we think is decent, both for producing downforce in the right place, and hopefully being resistant to the bounciness that all these cars nibble at as soon as you try and get much downforce from them."

Allison was asked if the team now know what design direction they can trust for next season. He replied: "We are pretty hopeful that we have got a good handle on what has been ailing us. Therefore, we are pretty confident that we know which direction to head in for the following season, for next season.

"But that leads an open question though, let’s say we are dead right, and we know exactly where we are heading, can we actually walk that path fast enough to overhaul a pretty dominant Red Bull and pop our noses in front? That’s our challenge, more so than being confident on where we are heading.

"I think we are heading in the right place but the challenge, and that’s what makes this part of the year so breathlessly brilliant, is can we not just walk along that path but fair sprint it for the next several months."

in other words what they are working on is making more efficient df, and making it consistently across a wide range of conditions!

[AR3-GP]

Mercedes are now set to bring an upgraded floor to Austin and, speaking to Tom Clarkson and Damon Hill on the F1 Nation podcast earlier this week, Allison addressed whether the update was just to give Mercedes more pace for the final few races of the season or to help with their design for the 2024 campaign.

"Neither of those things," Allison explained. "It should be good at any circuit for the remainder of the year. It’s not transformative, [it] should be about a tenth of a second.

Classic Allison

[aMessageToCharlie]

IMO, George focuses far to much on trying to beat Lewis, while forgetting to stay out of trouble. By trouble I mean not crashing yourself or your teammate out, or running into them, or hindering them.

You must be mixing something up there, as it was LH
- overtaking off track in Singapore, refusing to let his team mate back past, ruining both driver's stints
- pushing his team mate off track in Suzuka, not making the corner himself
- crashing into his team mate in Quatar, taking out both cars

Ok....

Singapore was George holding the hard end. Could have tucked in to lwt his teammate behind.

Suzuka was a cheeky George move that was duly nipped in the bud.

Quatari blamed Lewis but fuether reviews showed George had no chance of passing Max there and should have tucked in to allow Ham a go since he had momentum on the faster tyre.

So... No...

lol, sure bud. You guys must be watching a different season, but I don't want to further interrupt the LH fandom. Carry on...