2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

[-wkst-]

I highly doubt that guys from this forum can judge the quality of an engineer, we can just look at the results. These results do not speak for Prodromou since 2015.

[FittingMechanics]

Something is off here. I've never seen such a drop-off in performance during a season. Maybe only Ferrari with the engine TD or the TD 039.

Flexi wing. At least Brrrake from Youtube seems to think so.

[KimiRai]

So Peter Prodrumou is a better aerodynamics than Dan Fallows after all.

Was it ever in doubt?

It wasn't, Peter was always better, just that he was sidelined while Key was at McL and didn't provide much input. That's why they decided to change the technical structure.

I'm interested to see what Fallows and Blandin have prepared for next year.

Lol, the nerves of some people. Ridiculous.

Having someone like Newey by your side guarantees you a great car, but not always the best. The best, for eight years, was at Mercedes, and the father of them all was Aldo Costa. Results come from many ingredients and the designer is a key one, but not the only one. Newey creates great cars because he has a specific team around him, a specific wind tunnel, a specific computer with many gigabytes that does the simulations, the CFD, the CAD design, the calculations, etc... The technical director is a piece on which other crucial elements pivot, but he is one of several and all of them have to work. Costa was sacked from Ferrari 'for not working'. He came to Mercedes and it worked. The key was not so much who was ultimately responsible, but all the technical and human tools at his fingertips.

Another glaring example that explains all is the Peter Prodromou you mentioned. This British engineer of Greek origin is very much in Newey's style. He drank from his knowledge for years, and according to many was an extension of him. Their ways of working are quite similar. Neither of them touches a computer, or at least not to project. Ideas flash in their brains at any time, and they pester the senior engineers at any time by saying "do this". It is the latter who are responsible for bringing to life the solutions, parts and designs born in the mastermind's head.

But many McLaren fans were throwing fireworks and uncorking sparkling wine to celebrate the successes to come in Woking thanks to his arrival back then. Well... er... since 15 October 2014, the day he was announced as the man ultimately responsible for the design, titles have not come, and victory has been just one. It was an Italian day in 2021 when the now defenestrated Daniel Ricciardo came first at Monza. The first victory of the Prodromou era took exactly seven seasons and one hundred and thirty-eight races to arrive. And it was the only one, without taking sprint races into account. The conclusion is simple and the evidence conclusive: signing a Newey's disciple won't give you strong results per se if you don't accompany it with more. And we are talking about complex mechanisms. Wind tunnels that take months and almost years to calibrate, co-engineering teams that have to dance to the same beat, a racing team that works, technology acquisition, simulators, measurement and testing systems, and a thousand other little details that bring the podium a little closer.

[101FlyingDutchman]

So Peter Prodrumou is a better aerodynamics than Dan Fallows after all.

Was it ever in doubt?

It wasn't, Peter was always better, just that he was sidelined while Key was at McL and didn't provide much input. That's why they decided to change the technical structure.

I'm interested to see what Fallows and Blandin have prepared for next year.

Lol, the nerves of some people. Ridiculous.

Having someone like Newey by your side guarantees you a great car, but not always the best. The best, for eight years, was at Mercedes, and the father of them all was Aldo Costa. Results come from many ingredients and the designer is a key one, but not the only one. Newey creates great cars because he has a specific team around him, a specific wind tunnel, a specific computer with many gigabytes that does the simulations, the CFD, the CAD design, the calculations, etc... The technical director is a piece on which other crucial elements pivot, but he is one of several and all of them have to work. Costa was sacked from Ferrari 'for not working'. He came to Mercedes and it worked. The key was not so much who was ultimately responsible, but all the technical and human tools at his fingertips.

Another glaring example that explains all is the Peter Prodromou you mentioned. This British engineer of Greek origin is very much in Newey's style. He drank from his knowledge for years, and according to many was an extension of him. Their ways of working are quite similar. Neither of them touches a computer, or at least not to project. Ideas flash in their brains at any time, and they pester the senior engineers at any time by saying "do this". It is the latter who are responsible for bringing to life the solutions, parts and designs born in the mastermind's head.

But many McLaren fans were throwing fireworks and uncorking sparkling wine to celebrate the successes to come in Woking thanks to his arrival back then. Well... er... since 15 October 2014, the day he was announced as the man ultimately responsible for the design, titles have not come, and victory has been just one. It was an Italian day in 2021 when the now defenestrated Daniel Ricciardo came first at Monza. The first victory of the Prodromou era took exactly seven seasons and one hundred and thirty-eight races to arrive. And it was the only one, without taking sprint races into account. The conclusion is simple and the evidence conclusive: signing a Newey's disciple won't give you strong results per se if you don't accompany it with more. And we are talking about complex mechanisms. Wind tunnels that take months and almost years to calibrate, co-engineering teams that have to dance to the same beat, a racing team that works, technology acquisition, simulators, measurement and testing systems, and a thousand other little details that bring the podium a little closer.

If I could upvote I would. Good post

[xReVo]

Guys, let's calm down for a moment. There are Aston Martin's ideas that I don't really understand, the fact of making extreme choices at the beginning of the year (which worked) and then going on to copy Redbull (see the rear or the sidepods). McLaren has practically brought the old Aston Martin to the track by combining it with their successful concepts (the McLaren B they were talking about debuted in Baku with terrible results) and is the second car on the grid currently. But we must also look at another fundamental aspect: you can say whatever you want but they are not incapable in Aston Martin. They made these choices for a reason we don't know. However, we can see how FIA has penalized Aston this season with the front wing and this suggests that the technical choices have gone in this direction. Another important thing is that the simulator shows progress that doesn't exist in reality; however, I remember well how in the pre-season the simulator indicated that Aston Martin was 3 strength and that was actually the case. Why did the simulator initially reflect reality and now it doesn't? I conclude by saying that yesterday must be taken with attention because there was no way to test the updates in an ideal way and little was done with the setup too, don't forget how Mercedes debuted in Monaco with the new sidepods.

[KimiRai]

In Q1 there was only three tenths and half of a gap between 5th and 17th, one of the closest sessions in many years.

With a better understanding of the new parts and a much better lap preparation, it is quite possible that Fernando would have been around 5th or 6th

[JordanMugen]

i don't understand how they managed to develop a car that fast over last winter. but everything they've added during the course of the season has ruined the balance and speed of the car

That's an excellent point! It's certainly unusual.

[AR3-GP]

Stroll is out of the car, session over. Fernando is still going.

The universe works in mysterious ways.

Apparently they mistakenly put Drugovich on the big driver posters in the paddock instead of Stroll. It had to be corrected.

Resistance is futile

[diffuser]

So Peter Prodrumou is a better aerodynamics than Dan Fallows after all.

How do you know that?

[diffuser]

i don't understand how they managed to develop a car that fast over last winter. but everything they've added during the course of the season has ruined the balance and speed of the car

That's an excellent point! It's certainly unusual.

You know Alonso was only 2 tenths off of Leclerc's time in Q1. Think you guys have all gone too off to the other side.

We all new that setup with massive upgrades were gonna be a challenge if everything went well.... It didn't...that made it an even bigger challenge. It's gonna take most of the weekend and maybe more.

[SchuMassa]

The upgrades are definitely a success! Stroll is only 2 places behind Fernando...
... in P12-P14.

[draghixa]

Confused, is the track limit the outside edge of the white line or the inside (track side) edge of the white line?

[xReVo]

1 second from verstappen (which ideally will be 1.5) cannot just be setup problems

[SSJ4]

they've destroyed all the good traits the car had. both cars tyres were completely finished. only haas had worse tyre deg in the sprint

[OnEcRiTiCaL]

Guys, let's calm down for a moment. There are Aston Martin's ideas that I don't really understand, the fact of making extreme choices at the beginning of the year (which worked) and then going on to copy Redbull (see the rear or the sidepods). McLaren has practically brought the old Aston Martin to the track by combining it with their successful concepts (the McLaren B they were talking about debuted in Baku with terrible results) and is the second car on the grid currently. But we must also look at another fundamental aspect: you can say whatever you want but they are not incapable in Aston Martin. They made these choices for a reason we don't know. However, we can see how FIA has penalized Aston this season with the front wing and this suggests that the technical choices have gone in this direction. Another important thing is that the simulator shows progress that doesn't exist in reality; however, I remember well how in the pre-season the simulator indicated that Aston Martin was 3 strength and that was actually the case. Why did the simulator initially reflect reality and now it doesn't? I conclude by saying that yesterday must be taken with attention because there was no way to test the updates in an ideal way and little was done with the setup too, don't forget how Mercedes debuted in Monaco with the new sidepods.

"Why did the simulator initially reflect reality and now it doesn't?"
Because Mercedes begin of the season culdnt see AM amazing performance, so sabotage the AM in the wind tunnel ? Lol