2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[ValeVida46]

We'll see soon enough what the real performance is.

Agreed

[Cs98]

Dr Obbs with some sound analysis in the embedded tweet. He also has more pictures on his feed comparing RB to Merc and various other cars. For example.



This isn't just one picture. Most pictures, high speed and slow speed seem to indicate RB are running higher.

[dans79]

RB is clearly far past the apex there

That's not the point, he probably has 100's of shots at just that corner.

Getting a shot of an f1 car at speed moving parallel to the axis of the camera is damn hard even for professionals (I've talked with a few). In 2019 I was in COTA shooting down by the hairpin. The only way to get decent shots is put the camera in manual focus, and shoot in burst mode, and hope one of the shots in the sequence has the subject fully in focus. In 2019 I had a little over 3k shots from Friday alone, and I was only using 1 camera. A lot of the pros are using 2 or 3!

[Luscion]

RB is clearly far past the apex there

He says he has photos of it so maybe he will post them, also explaining that it's due to them riding the kerb on the left, says that RB is ofc using a higher ride height but its not massive. It's better to look at his Twitter than me relaying it as he's explaining his reasoning for what he's saying right now

Fair enough. We don't have to use his pics though

https://i.imgur.com/CGu90dm.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/84BtTjU.jpeg

I'm not saying hes right or wrong, just interesting to get the perspective of the guy whos pictures were being used by a lot of people on social media as a reference

[organic]

Fair points

[ValeVida46]

The guy whos photos everyone is using to show how much higher the RB was is now telling people not to read into it because it was one set of photos and he has more of the RB sparking in that corner just like the rest of the cars

Thanks for the tweets.

I sourced one from F1i.com that appears to be his. But there are a couple more.

Fair enough. We don't have to use his pics though

Floor torsion is missing in this.

You can see Mercedes exhibits high levels of this at other venues where one part of the floor is lower than the opposite.
From Bahrain:


From Miami:


And beautifully shown here:

[dans79]

The merc wear might not even be a true set-up issue, might be because Lewis was verry aggressive on the curbs. Specifically through turns 4, 5, 6, out of 9 and out of19.

He was warned by the team about track limits at 5!

[AR3-GP]

At the end of the day, Mercedes would have had to raise their car or run stiffer suspension to reduce the plank wear. This would have changed the performance picture.

The pictures of Merc vs RB vs Ferrari are only a tangential discussion point.

[mwillems]

At the end of the day, Mercedes would have had to raise their car or run stiffer suspension to reduce the plank wear. This would have changed the performance picture.

The pictures of Merc vs RB vs Ferrari are only a tangential discussion point.

Exactly.

And the same point raised a few pages back stands, we don't know how much was gained as we don't know enough about the setup or the driving and the o
Pictures prove nothing, so what exactly are we trying to learn today?

This just seemed to descend into a personal disagreement based on how one thought the other was approaching the subject, how another used language.. when both knew no real conclusion was possible.

A storm in a teacup as we brits say

[Silent Storm]

From Julien Simon-Chautemps (Kimi Raikkonen’s last race engineer in Alfa Romeo)

I have read a lot incorrect comments following the disqualification of LEC and HAM but this explanation of @NorthHertsSam is very complete. To this, I will add that it is one of the oldest regulation in @F1 and teams normally master it well. However, for some reasons, it is very rare that FIA check it at the end of races. They have precise simulation given them the height of the skid at the end of straights and take margin accordingly. The minimum measurement is 9.0mm however the unwritten rule is that FIA will measure 3 points across each skid and as long as only one measurement is >=9.0mm you are fine. Some teams also use sensor to measure skid temperature in order to have an idea of the bottoming and wear level.

[ValeVida46]

At the end of the day, Mercedes would have had to raise their car or run stiffer suspension to reduce the plank wear. This would have changed the performance picture.

The pictures of Merc vs RB vs Ferrari are only a tangential discussion point.

This is assuming that it wasn't due to exceeding track limits as Dans79 is rightly pointing out. Scraping it 2 or 3 times over the kerbs on an already bumpy track would do it.
Cars that naturally run lower would have an optimum set up and then fall at risk to this for the simple reason there wasn't enough running time to make those small adjustments.

The rule is pretty clear.

A minimum thickness of 9mm will be accepted due to wear, and conformity to this provision will be checked at the peripheries of the designated holes

All it takes is one square hit at the right angle at the right load at the right time at the right track and you have non conformity at one part of the entire plank.
And that could be anyone at any venue if the FIA could be bothered to check if they're "suspicious".
As it appears this was the reason they checked LeClerc and Ham.

Post-race scrutineering is part and parcel of motorsport all the way up from a grassroots level. After an F1 contest, an array of temperatures, torques, software, fuel and component checks are carried out.
But these are not uniform across the 20 cars. The sporting regulations permit technical delegate Jo Bauer to carry out “at his discretion, any checks to verify the compliance of the cars entered in the competition”.
Accordingly, no cars had their floors checked following the Japanese GP, one was looked at after the Qatar sprint race and three cars assessed in the immediate aftermath of the full-length Qatar GP.
The FIA can zero in on which cars to single out for further inspection based on a variety of indicators.
In the case of a worn floor, a beaten-up titanium skid plate gives off a strong smell that can arouse suspicion from the pitwall. A better read is the onboard footage, which the FIA will monitor to see if drivers’ heads are wobbling as a result of bottoming out over bumps.

[Luscion]

I think it's pretty clear RB raised their car higher than Merc did, the question is, can Merc sustain this level of performance for the last 4 races. Guess we'll see this weekend

[TFSA]

All it takes is one square hit at the right angle at the right load at the right time at the right track and you have non conformity at one part of the entire plank.
And that could be anyone at any venue if the FIA could be bothered to check if they're "suspicious".
As it appears this was the reason they checked LeClerc and Ham.

Not really. The parts of the plank that are measured are made of titanium. And the holes they use auto measure them are huge.

It takes consistent wear to grind these down, not just a bad hit at a bad angle. You won't find any precedent for that.

[dialtone]

Violation is 1mm of wear and Ferrari was off by few tenths of a mm, Merc likely the same. This is squarely in the s— happens category.

You folks are blowing this way out of proportion.

[denyall]

Violation is 1mm of wear and Ferrari was off by few tenths of a mm, Merc likely the same. This is squarely in the s— happens category.

You folks are blowing this way out of proportion.

I'm not angry, you're angry