2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[mwillems]

The plank can be replaced after practise but not after Qualifying, so the plank also has to do a sprint Qualifying and Sprint race more than a plank would normally endure, just to compound the issue, not all of the wear will necessarily be from the main race.

[ValeVida46]

I'm pretty sure Organic posted a tweet from a former F1 engineer which suggested that the violation in the area that was cited was not something likely to come from an errant curb strike, but rather a systematic ground clearance issue.

Anyone thinking that a single bad kerb strike is taking disqualifying levels of wear out of the plank is not correct. It doesn't work like that. Cars must have done near 100 laps on the circuit hitting all manner of the bumps at all possible angles. It's a wear that occurs over time from the back of the car sitting too low to avoid it.

Have you read BRRRAKE's timeline?



Also, I'm not saying that is the reason. I'm saying it has an impact. Literally.
And if Duchessa is accurate then this wasn't systemic being a "few tenths of millimeter".

This all points to a low amount of run time due to sprint weekend and a bumpy track.
Sh*t happens. Ghost hunting can wait till the next race.

[organic]

I'm pretty sure Organic posted a tweet from a former F1 engineer which suggested that the violation in the area that was cited was not something likely to come from an errant curb strike, but rather a systematic ground clearance issue.

Anyone thinking that a single bad kerb strike is taking disqualifying levels of wear out of the plank is not correct. It doesn't work like that. Cars must have done near 100 laps on the circuit hitting all manner of the bumps at all possible angles. It's a wear that occurs over time from the back of the car sitting too low to avoid it.

Have you read BRRRAKE's timeline?



Also, I'm not saying that is the reason. I'm saying it has an impact. Literally.
And if Duchessa is accurate then this wasn't systemic being a "few tenths of millimeter".

This all points to a low amount of run time due to sprint weekend and a bumpy track.
Sh*t happens. Ghost hunting can wait till the next race.

What on his TL discredits his experience/knowledge? He's the one that pointed out RB were managing plank wear @ spa, so he's been on the right track when it comes to this topic already this season

Duchessa only refers to Ferrari when he said the Margin. He likely doesn't have the inside info from Merc as he's essentially a Ferrari mouthpiece

[mwillems]

I'm pretty sure Organic posted a tweet from a former F1 engineer which suggested that the violation in the area that was cited was not something likely to come from an errant curb strike, but rather a systematic ground clearance issue.

Anyone thinking that a single bad kerb strike is taking disqualifying levels of wear out of the plank is not correct. It doesn't work like that. Cars must have done near 100 laps on the circuit hitting all manner of the bumps at all possible angles. It's a wear that occurs over time from the back of the car sitting too low to avoid it.

Have you read BRRRAKE's timeline?



Also, I'm not saying that is the reason. I'm saying it has an impact. Literally.
And if Duchessa is accurate then this wasn't systemic being a "few tenths of millimeter".

This all points to a low amount of run time due to sprint weekend and a bumpy track.
Sh*t happens. Ghost hunting can wait till the next race.

Systematic means it was part of the proccess, part of the routine, i.e. it happened each lap and wore it over time, it isn't a measure of the scale of the hit.

[ringo]

Why is this thread flooded with anti Merc posters?
A technical discussion is fine, but when the team are being accused of cheating by running a car too low.. that's a huge accusation to make.
The plank wore more than expected because of excessive running and a bumpy track. It's as simple as that.
In fact the car could have lost performance with the wear if the plank is not typically run on the ground as there would be a wider gap between the road and the plank where it's worn.
many things can cause the car to wear more. It can be running over the same curb the same way for sprint and race, it can be running over the same bump, it can even be tyre pressures. There are so many reasons why, but to say the team knew they would run the car on the plank and lower so as to wear it.. it's ridiculous.

We should be looking at the FIA and their silly statistical methods of inspection, but also the silliness of the sprint weekend. They shoot themselves in the foot when the star of the show gets disqualified for something that was a result of the whole circus that is the sprint. Yes lack of data to setup the cars can be entertaining by making random unpredictable racing conditions, but the random unpredictable stuff will happen with the setup of the cars themselves.

[AR3-GP]

Why is this thread flooded with anti Merc posters?
A technical discussion is fine, but when the team are being accused of cheating by running a car too low.. that's a huge accusation to make.

I did a search of this thread for usage of the words "cheat" and "cheating" and the last mention of such a word before your own is on July 25th of this year.

No one said Mercedes did it on purpose. Everyone acknowledged that Merc did not prepare correctly. They did not do high fuel runs like RB and Mclaren on Friday. They got caught out.

Thus the discussion is only technical in nature and speculative of what performance benefit if any may have arisen.

[Stu]

At the end of the day, Mercedes would have had to raise their car or run stiffer suspension to reduce the plank wear. This would have changed the performance picture.

The pictures of Merc vs RB vs Ferrari are only a tangential discussion point.

This is assuming that it wasn't due to exceeding track limits as Dans79 is rightly pointing out. Scraping it 2 or 3 times over the kerbs on an already bumpy track would do it.
Cars that naturally run lower would have an optimum set up and then fall at risk to this for the simple reason there wasn't enough running time to make those small adjustments.

The rule is pretty clear.

A minimum thickness of 9mm will be accepted due to wear, and conformity to this provision will be checked at the peripheries of the designated holes

All it takes is one square hit at the right angle at the right load at the right time at the right track and you have non conformity at one part of the entire plank.
And that could be anyone at any venue if the FIA could be bothered to check if they're "suspicious".
As it appears this was the reason they checked LeClerc and Ham.

Post-race scrutineering is part and parcel of motorsport all the way up from a grassroots level. After an F1 contest, an array of temperatures, torques, software, fuel and component checks are carried out.
But these are not uniform across the 20 cars. The sporting regulations permit technical delegate Jo Bauer to carry out “at his discretion, any checks to verify the compliance of the cars entered in the competition”.
Accordingly, no cars had their floors checked following the Japanese GP, one was looked at after the Qatar sprint race and three cars assessed in the immediate aftermath of the full-length Qatar GP.
The FIA can zero in on which cars to single out for further inspection based on a variety of indicators.
In the case of a worn floor, a beaten-up titanium skid plate gives off a strong smell that can arouse suspicion from the pitwall. A better read is the onboard footage, which the FIA will monitor to see if drivers’ heads are wobbling as a result of bottoming out over bumps.

Schumacher, Benetton, Spa, 1994.
Disqualified for plank wear infringement.
The team took the Stewards to a corner where MS had spun over the kerb during the race; there were still splinters of plank on the kerb that matched the wear (scrapes) in the floor.
Stayed disqualified.

[chrisc90]

Nobody has called anyone a 'cheat'. Merc made a setup error that caused it to be a little too low, resulting in excessive plank wear - so the car became illegal at the end of the race due to failing technical checks.

You cant blame the sprint. 3 sprints in 2021. 3 sprints in 2022. 5 to date in 2023. That's 11 total sprint races. All have followed the same format of 1 Free practice session before sprint qualifying (from memory).

I do think this should be a check that is done across the grid as a whole, especially over longer distances where a sprint is included aswell.

What do you think the FIA should have done when Lewis' car was found to be in breach of the plank limit? Should they let him off, because he is 'the star of the show' (in your opinion)? Or should they treat all inspected cars the same?

Setup error or a minor miscalculation from the team (or maybe running too low fuel in FP1 to understand heavier loads and the bumps), FIA rightfully inspected the cars, found fault, correct processes were followed from the stewards. Im sure Mercedes will learn from it no doubt and when things like that happen you put measures in place as a team to keep a eye on things during FP running. Fans are a bit annoyed its happened, but just got to accept its happened and move on. Bounce back even better for the next race. Thats the best you can expect/do in situations like this.

[dans79]

Schumacher, Benetton, Spa, 1994.
Disqualified for plank wear infringement.
The team took the Stewards to a corner where MS had spun over the kerb during the race; there were still splinters of plank on the kerb that matched the wear (scrapes) in the floor.
Stayed disqualified.

I think everyone already knows the FIA are dumb and ignorant!

[cplchanb]

Schumacher, Benetton, Spa, 1994.
Disqualified for plank wear infringement.
The team took the Stewards to a corner where MS had spun over the kerb during the race; there were still splinters of plank on the kerb that matched the wear (scrapes) in the floor.
Stayed disqualified.

I think everyone already knows the FIA are dumb and ignorant!

apparently from the 2013 schumacher interview they knew that damon hill's car was also wearing low but they chose not to act on it.... had hill been dqed as well it wouldve been virtually game over for 1994.

[ringo]

Nobody has called anyone a 'cheat'. Merc made a setup error that caused it to be a little too low, resulting in excessive plank wear - so the car became illegal at the end of the race due to failing technical checks.

You cant blame the sprint. 3 sprints in 2021. 3 sprints in 2022. 5 to date in 2023. That's 11 total sprint races. All have followed the same format of 1 Free practice session before sprint qualifying (from memory).

I do think this should be a check that is done across the grid as a whole, especially over longer distances where a sprint is included aswell.

What do you think the FIA should have done when Lewis' car was found to be in breach of the plank limit? Should they let him off, because he is 'the star of the show' (in your opinion)? Or should they treat all inspected cars the same?

Setup error or a minor miscalculation from the team (or maybe running too low fuel in FP1 to understand heavier loads and the bumps), FIA rightfully inspected the cars, found fault, correct processes were followed from the stewards. Im sure Mercedes will learn from it no doubt and when things like that happen you put measures in place as a team to keep a eye on things during FP running. Fans are a bit annoyed its happened, but just got to accept its happened and move on. Bounce back even better for the next race. Thats the best you can expect/do in situations like this.

Solution is not about Lewis. It's about 50% of the sample failing. That should trigger inspection of all 20 cars.
The other 14 cars that finished the race.. half of them could have fell afoul of the rules and still earn more points after Lewis and Charles got bumped out of the standings.

[chrisc90]

I agree the sampling should be more. Maybe the first 2 failed (all they were going to do to begin with.) then they took another 2 and they passed. Who knows.

Ive no idea what you mean by this phrase then:

They shoot themselves in the foot when the star of the show gets disqualified for something that was a result of the whole circus that is the sprint.

.

Seems a bit irrelevant if the solution isnt about Lewis. Lewis is no different to any other driver on the grid in the eyes of the FIA, he still has to meet the same standards, tech regs etc as anyone else.

[ringo]

I agree the sampling should be more. Maybe the first 2 failed (all they were going to do to begin with.) then they took another 2 and they passed. Who knows.

Ive no idea what you mean by this phrase then:

They shoot themselves in the foot when the star of the show gets disqualified for something that was a result of the whole circus that is the sprint.

.

Seems a bit irrelevant if the solution isnt about Lewis. Lewis is no different to any other driver on the grid in the eyes of the FIA, he still has to meet the same standards, tech regs etc as anyone else.

Well the FIA disagreed when he crossed the track in Qatar. What did they call him? A role model to the sport and so deserves more punishment.

The sport damages itself when things like these happen. Most fans do not understand what the plank is, and they do not know the significance of it. Heck, even the FIA cannot quantity the significance of 1mm of plank in one area. All the fans see is the guy who spiced up the show getting disqualified. You can read the social media comments to get a sample of the broader F-1 fans' views. They would have saved face to some degree handling it differently by doing a full inspection. Selecting the top 4 only was not random.

[dans79]

I agree the sampling should be more. Maybe the first 2 failed (all they were going to do to begin with.) then they took another 2 and they passed. Who knows.

They supposedly randomly pick cars for extended tests, because they say they don't have enough staff to test all the cars. However given the amount of money the FIA makes off of f1, and the simplicity of all the test they should be testing ever car. I mean a child who understands none integer math can reed a digital micrometer.

[Rootsap]

Maybe they've found a way to run the car lower next year and that the only way to test the new floor was to run the car like this to simulate the effects. all in the hopes that they wouldn't be picked in the random post race inspection?