2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[the EDGE]

https://www.racefans.net/2023/10/30/nor ... g-crashes/

Apparently Lando had to avoid a couple of near-misses on the restart, which explains why he dropped places.

Yea he played the long game, remembering… to finish first, first you must finish

[BMMR61]

Like LionHeart I have avoided the forum after the various qualifying tirades by some here. But I watched the race live and undistracted by the keyboard! Then I did a watch-through with timing charts. Then I read the last 15 pages since the start of the race. A very interesting race from various team perspectives but especially exhilarating for McLaren fans. As only happens quite rarely, someone lights up the race with an inspired and controlled drive through the field - that was excellent from Lando and arguably his best drive yet in F1.

I think we can now put to bed the notion that the McLaren is weak in slow corners (where Lando did most of his overtaking) like the old factoid that the car flatters in qualifying only to deceive in the race with high tyre degradation. Does this recently found ability to be easy on the tyres have anything to do with an adjustment in Lando's approach which Oscar is having to learn? Just asking... The car WAS good at bringing (particularly hard compounds) tyres into a good window which may have been linked to the degradation deficiency.

The car's characteristics have had two major shifts - Silverstone, and Singapore - that are putting us all on the spot with making predictions about what might happen next! Let's be honest, all here who thought the C4 (medium) would last the remainder of the race out after the restart? I wonder if the team did. Lewis was sceptical on the radio. I certainly didn't though I am often bemused by teams who underestimate the effects of lower fuel load and rubbered-in tracks. This car has become quite benign and compliant and "all-rounderish" confounding everyone's predictions - Lando??? I'm confidently going for a Verstappen/Norris/Hamilton podium next weekend, unless it rains, in which case I'll go for a McLaren win!

[djos]

The car's characteristics have had two major shifts - Silverstone, and Singapore - that are putting us all on the spot with making predictions about what might happen next! Let's be honest, all here who thought the C4 (medium) would last the remainder of the race out after the restart? I wonder if the team did. Lewis was sceptical on the radio. I certainly didn't though I am often bemused by teams who underestimate the effects of lower fuel load and rubbered-in tracks. This car has become quite benign and compliant and "all-rounderish" confounding everyone's predictions - Lando??? I'm confidently going for a Verstappen/Norris/Hamilton podium next weekend, unless it rains, in which case I'll go for a McLaren win!

I can't find it now, but I read yesterday that Lando is still unhappy with the cornering behaviour - he wants to drive a U shape, but is still forced to drive a V shape through corners. I imagine that if the team can fix this, the McLaren will be a legitimate title contending car.

[Mostlyeels]

https://www.racefans.net/2023/10/30/nor ... g-crashes/

Apparently Lando had to avoid a couple of near-misses on the restart, which explains why he dropped places.

Yea he played the long game, remembering… to finish first, first you must finish

Definitely. This year I feel he's really stepped up a notch. Great to see he's come from first season "timid starts" to where he is now.

[Mostlyeels]

Let's be honest, all here who thought the C4 (medium) would last the remainder of the race out after the restart? I wonder if the team did.

Yes, a smashing race by Lando.

I'll go one further and say, when I saw the Softs on at the start, I really expected him to be coming at the back somewhere by the end. Mediums vs Hards was perplexing too; just track temps?

[organic]

I think the medium surprised everyone in how good it was for the 2nd half of the race. Less fuel, lower track temps and rubber laid down will all have helped a lot

[Dafnalina]

I'm not convinced Ferrari will be 2nd fastest during the race, but for sure during quali since a lot of the track is just full throttle

[billamend]

I can't find it now, but I read yesterday that Lando is still unhappy with the cornering behaviour - he wants to drive a U shape, but is still forced to drive a V shape through corners.

He has been complaining about that since... ever?

[mwillems]

I think the medium surprised everyone in how good it was for the 2nd half of the race. Less fuel, lower track temps and rubber laid down will all have helped a lot

Was it not the same as the previous week? Little used mediums, run on very high tack temps that then offered excellent performance in their second run.

[mwillems]

The car's characteristics have had two major shifts - Silverstone, and Singapore - that are putting us all on the spot with making predictions about what might happen next! Let's be honest, all here who thought the C4 (medium) would last the remainder of the race out after the restart? I wonder if the team did. Lewis was sceptical on the radio. I certainly didn't though I am often bemused by teams who underestimate the effects of lower fuel load and rubbered-in tracks. This car has become quite benign and compliant and "all-rounderish" confounding everyone's predictions - Lando??? I'm confidently going for a Verstappen/Norris/Hamilton podium next weekend, unless it rains, in which case I'll go for a McLaren win!

I can't find it now, but I read yesterday that Lando is still unhappy with the cornering behaviour - he wants to drive a U shape, but is still forced to drive a V shape through corners. I imagine that if the team can fix this, the McLaren will be a legitimate title contending car.

Yes, it is something that will hopefully be addressed in the new car, but we will see. It appears to be mechanical and affects how the nose behaves through entry all the way to exit. The V shape mitigates this a little as there is less turning under braking, and on exit the car is more in a straight line rather than accelerating away through the U profile of the corner, where the nose would otherwise not want to stay pointed where we want it to.

I may be getting 3 from 1+1 but I think it relates to the limitations of the previous tunnel. Any new suspension can now be tested in the tunnel through different cornering behaviours, which wasn't possible before.

[djos]

I can't find it now, but I read yesterday that Lando is still unhappy with the cornering behaviour - he wants to drive a U shape, but is still forced to drive a V shape through corners.

He has been complaining about that since... ever?

He sure has - based on recent comments, McLaren seems to have fixed the worst of the handling traits, but that one remains.

[organic]

When Lando thinks they will struggle, he means not winning the race. I don't see Brazil being bad for the car at all

Post-race radio

[SmallSoldier]

Like LionHeart I have avoided the forum after the various qualifying tirades by some here. But I watched the race live and undistracted by the keyboard! Then I did a watch-through with timing charts. Then I read the last 15 pages since the start of the race. A very interesting race from various team perspectives but especially exhilarating for McLaren fans. As only happens quite rarely, someone lights up the race with an inspired and controlled drive through the field - that was excellent from Lando and arguably his best drive yet in F1.

I think we can now put to bed the notion that the McLaren is weak in slow corners (where Lando did most of his overtaking) like the old factoid that the car flatters in qualifying only to deceive in the race with high tyre degradation. Does this recently found ability to be easy on the tyres have anything to do with an adjustment in Lando's approach which Oscar is having to learn? Just asking... The car WAS good at bringing (particularly hard compounds) tyres into a good window which may have been linked to the degradation deficiency.

The car's characteristics have had two major shifts - Silverstone, and Singapore - that are putting us all on the spot with making predictions about what might happen next! Let's be honest, all here who thought the C4 (medium) would last the remainder of the race out after the restart? I wonder if the team did. Lewis was sceptical on the radio. I certainly didn't though I am often bemused by teams who underestimate the effects of lower fuel load and rubbered-in tracks. This car has become quite benign and compliant and "all-rounderish" confounding everyone's predictions - Lando??? I'm confidently going for a Verstappen/Norris/Hamilton podium next weekend, unless it rains, in which case I'll go for a McLaren win!

The amount of lifespan the Medium tires has in the last stint is even more impressive when we consider that Lando was pushing and battling all throughout that stint… Not a lot of “tire management” going on when you are making overtakes on the dirty / outside part of a corner, outbreaking your opponents and going early on throttle to catch the car in front… Obviously the team has a lot of data at their disposal, they knew what tire degradation was after practice, but at the same time, they didn’t had many options left after the red flag… There wasn’t a new or lightly used hard tire available… Softs probably wouldn’t have made it all the way (and they had the information from the first stint)… The scrubbed mediums was really the only option they had… Whether it was based on data or just luck, it was impressive

[the EDGE]

Like LionHeart I have avoided the forum after the various qualifying tirades by some here. But I watched the race live and undistracted by the keyboard! Then I did a watch-through with timing charts. Then I read the last 15 pages since the start of the race. A very interesting race from various team perspectives but especially exhilarating for McLaren fans. As only happens quite rarely, someone lights up the race with an inspired and controlled drive through the field - that was excellent from Lando and arguably his best drive yet in F1.

I think we can now put to bed the notion that the McLaren is weak in slow corners (where Lando did most of his overtaking) like the old factoid that the car flatters in qualifying only to deceive in the race with high tyre degradation. Does this recently found ability to be easy on the tyres have anything to do with an adjustment in Lando's approach which Oscar is having to learn? Just asking... The car WAS good at bringing (particularly hard compounds) tyres into a good window which may have been linked to the degradation deficiency.

The car's characteristics have had two major shifts - Silverstone, and Singapore - that are putting us all on the spot with making predictions about what might happen next! Let's be honest, all here who thought the C4 (medium) would last the remainder of the race out after the restart? I wonder if the team did. Lewis was sceptical on the radio. I certainly didn't though I am often bemused by teams who underestimate the effects of lower fuel load and rubbered-in tracks. This car has become quite benign and compliant and "all-rounderish" confounding everyone's predictions - Lando??? I'm confidently going for a Verstappen/Norris/Hamilton podium next weekend, unless it rains, in which case I'll go for a McLaren win!

The amount of lifespan the Medium tires has in the last stint is even more impressive when we consider that Lando was pushing and battling all throughout that stint… Not a lot of “tire management” going on when you are making overtakes on the dirty / outside part of a corner, outbreaking your opponents and going early on throttle to catch the car in front… Obviously the team has a lot of data at their disposal, they knew what tire degradation was after practice, but at the same time, they didn’t had many options left after the red flag… There wasn’t a new or lightly used hard tire available… Softs probably wouldn’t have made it all the way (and they had the information from the first stint)… The scrubbed mediums was really the only option they had… Whether it was based on data or just luck, it was impressive

Was they set of tyres he used the same as the set he put on when he pitted just before the red flag?

[PikeStance]

Great race for Norris. It nearly worked out as my best case scenario. If you had told me we have two cars, 5 and 8, I would have thought, great Norris made it I 8. LoL.

I’m not sure if I read correctly but it seems Piastri had some early damage. He seem ok initially when he passed Russel but then he was like stuck in a rut. He was still solid. Tsunodo is both literally and figuratively the poor man version of Stroll. He has very questionable racecraft. He’s like a benchmark for good/ bad and if it wasn’t for Honda he wouldn’t be there. I binged watched all of 2021 and 2022 and I can’t see anything that would suggest he will be anything more than what we see today. Anyway

My thought on the hard tires. They seem to get their grip when the cars were full of fuel and heavier. As they loss fuel the hardship got less grip. The 1st and 2nd stint was definitely the window. It seems the issue with Mexico is not degradation but heat of the engine and brakes, so Mediums which had good grip did well.

I’m quite certain that it is Pretty close between RB & McL. Ferrari is putting all of their eggs on qualifying and they hope they can sneak on the podium. I don’t think Merc is on par either though Hamilton can get more out of the car, especially over Russel. I think Piastri will be jousting with these guys. It comes down to if Norris can up his game to challenge Max. His race was definitely Max-like, so who knows.
I feel some people assume the idiosyncrasies that existed still do, but as performances increase the idiosyncrasies also decrease. My only concern with the 24 car is in the quest to improve the mechs iCal aspects of the car it creates an aerodynamic imbalance. However based on what they have been saying I would be surprised if becomes a problem. A discussion for another time

The track. The stadium section is perplexing. Why would you take a car known for its ability to make turns at high speeds and then slow it down to street car speeds and then out massive amount of people there. They need to make a single turn more ideal for passing there.