2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[skoop]

According to this article (https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/04/23/la ... ricciardo/) they tend to go in the same direction and that makes everything a bit easier for the engineers

[djos]

The references from Ricciardo here are to last years car, the car at Austin is vastly superior even if it has some of the same traits, there's no reason to believe that Ricciardo couldn't drive this car. It is also from a driver who couldn't get to grips with the car vs Lando who was able to drive around the issue, even if it wasn't optimal. Whilst there could be parallels, this to me is just another shovel of sh*t being thrown by the Red Bull camp, something they've made a habit of in their desire to build Daniel back up.

There’s no doubt the car this year is a very different beast. However, having to drive the car in a V shape seems likely to be a side effect of the aero instability Lando has mentioned numerous times.

I don’t want to get into a Daniel discussion, i just thought it was funny that AT was throwing shade, some of which correlates with Lando’s comments.

Even with the Aero instability it is in tandem with how the car works with the tires to make a contact patch and to provide a stable platform for the Aero to work. I think the team did some work in Singapore to improve the window with which the car can deal with outwash and tire wake to help the floor stay sealed and to get optimum downforce in these corners. And the added downforce in these corners has clearly helped. Getting the floor to help the nose stay pinned down efficiently is only going to bring more time to the car.

But whilst some work can always happen to improve this aspect, you'd say the area where we are yet to get our teeth into has been mapping the cars ability in the corners when in the wind tunnel, so that suspension and Aero can properly be designed to work closely together with none of the surprises we have had this year, or at least less surprises! Because you'd have to say the inability to design and tune these aspects to work together must be a big handicap. Even without Rob Marshall getting to help with this aspect for testing, I'm super excited for what the team will produce.

I noticed in the team video that we couldn't see the platform that the car sits on in the wind tunnel, so I'm assuming it must be really cutting edge and doing something pretty rare or unusual.

The new tunnel should be huge for next years car. The old Toyota tunnel apparently doesn’t allow work to be done in yaw which seems like a contributing factor to the current issue.

[mwillems]

There’s no doubt the car this year is a very different beast. However, having to drive the car in a V shape seems likely to be a side effect of the aero instability Lando has mentioned numerous times.

I don’t want to get into a Daniel discussion, i just thought it was funny that AT was throwing shade, some of which correlates with Lando’s comments.

Even with the Aero instability it is in tandem with how the car works with the tires to make a contact patch and to provide a stable platform for the Aero to work. I think the team did some work in Singapore to improve the window with which the car can deal with outwash and tire wake to help the floor stay sealed and to get optimum downforce in these corners. And the added downforce in these corners has clearly helped. Getting the floor to help the nose stay pinned down efficiently is only going to bring more time to the car.

But whilst some work can always happen to improve this aspect, you'd say the area where we are yet to get our teeth into has been mapping the cars ability in the corners when in the wind tunnel, so that suspension and Aero can properly be designed to work closely together with none of the surprises we have had this year, or at least less surprises! Because you'd have to say the inability to design and tune these aspects to work together must be a big handicap. Even without Rob Marshall getting to help with this aspect for testing, I'm super excited for what the team will produce.

I noticed in the team video that we couldn't see the platform that the car sits on in the wind tunnel, so I'm assuming it must be really cutting edge and doing something pretty rare or unusual.

The new tunnel should be huge for next years car. The old Toyota tunnel apparently doesn’t allow work to be done in yaw which seems like a contributing factor to the current issue.

Yeah. I suspect if it were just Yaw or pitch they were testing they wouldn't hide it, I don't know how much they can test, can they do some load tests also to simulate the loads on the car in the corners to get the suspension, chassis and tyres to show their behaviour ? Rather than "only" position the car as if it were in a certain phase of the corner? I'd love to know more about what they can do with this rig.

Edit: For all I know they just had a model in there they didn't want us to see, perhaps I am over-egging the wind tunnel custard

[mwillems]

Winglet looks different, curves round and down? Very Slightly more efficient? Or I need glasses. The engineers hand and the pressurized air pipe is blocking the view.

[continuum16]

Winglet looks different, curves round and down? Very Slightly more efficient? Or I need glasses. The engineers hand and the pressurized air pipe is blocking the view.

To me it doesn't look different to the wing from the last few races. The fact that the ends of the upper flap are carbon and not orange might indicate a change, but imo it could be the same wing and they're just re-applying the wrap/decals since it's the third race in a row and maybe the previous wrap/decals were scuffed or something. A clearer picture would be nice, especially one without the hand, but I don't see anything that jumps out at me.

[mwillems]

Winglet looks different, curves round and down? Very Slightly more efficient? Or I need glasses. The engineers hand and the pressurized air pipe is blocking the view.

To me it doesn't look different to the wing from the last few races. The fact that the ends of the upper flap are carbon and not orange might indicate a change, but imo it could be the same wing and they're just re-applying the wrap/decals since it's the third race in a row and maybe the previous wrap/decals were scuffed or something. A clearer picture would be nice, especially one without the hand, but I don't see anything that jumps out at me.

Previous races it was squared off at the top outside edge, this might be different and rounded?
Edit: I think you're right, I think whatever is covering the bolt on winglet may just be making it look a bit different, but underneath it may be the same shape.

[organic]

Winglet looks different, curves round and down? Very Slightly more efficient? Or I need glasses. The engineers hand and the pressurized air pipe is blocking the view.

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 5102909873

To me it doesn't look different to the wing from the last few races. The fact that the ends of the upper flap are carbon and not orange might indicate a change, but imo it could be the same wing and they're just re-applying the wrap/decals since it's the third race in a row and maybe the previous wrap/decals were scuffed or something. A clearer picture would be nice, especially one without the hand, but I don't see anything that jumps out at me.

Previous races it was squared off ar the top outside edge, this might be different and rounded?

They used it at Suzuka and were competitive in terms of topspeed with other teams. Their medium and high downforce wings have not been optimized for the upgrades brought towards the end of the season and so they brought a medium-high wing that would work at Zandvoort, Singapore, Suzuka, Qatar, COTA, Mexico and Brazil. They have a Monaco wing that they don't run anymore

Those are two different wings though. They have a high DF wing with the novel top flap mounting that RB has here, which they've ran at most circuits recently. Then they have a different slightly lower DF wing they ran at Suzuka, which to my eyes is the one in the picture. That one has a normal upper flap mount.

You are right that this isn't the same as Mexico, Singapore etc. My bad!

AMuS from today (Brazil GP 2023)



But it is the wing we saw at Zandvoort



but not Suzuka (where they ran this endplate corner)

[mwillems]

To me it doesn't look different to the wing from the last few races. The fact that the ends of the upper flap are carbon and not orange might indicate a change, but imo it could be the same wing and they're just re-applying the wrap/decals since it's the third race in a row and maybe the previous wrap/decals were scuffed or something. A clearer picture would be nice, especially one without the hand, but I don't see anything that jumps out at me.

Previous races it was squared off ar the top outside edge, this might be different and rounded?

Those are two different wings though. They have a high DF wing with the novel top flap mounting that RB has here, which they've ran at most circuits recently. Then they have a different slightly lower DF wing they ran at Suzuka, which to my eyes is the one in the picture. That one has a normal upper flap mount.

You are right that this isn't the same as Mexico, Singapore etc. My bad!

AMuS from today (Brazil GP 2023)

https://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/M ... 049349.jpg

But it is the wing we saw at Zandvoort

https://storage.googleapis.com/the-race ... image0.jpg

but not Suzuka (where they ran this endplate corner)

https://cdn.racingnews365.com/2023/Norr ... 1695539337

Nice thanks. Seems like it is catching a little less air and removing the vortex that would have been created by the top edge.

[organic]

Previous races it was squared off ar the top outside edge, this might be different and rounded?

You are right that this isn't the same as Mexico, Singapore etc. My bad!

AMuS from today (Brazil GP 2023)

https://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/M ... 049349.jpg

But it is the wing we saw at Zandvoort

https://storage.googleapis.com/the-race ... image0.jpg

but not Suzuka (where they ran this endplate corner)

https://cdn.racingnews365.com/2023/Norr ... 1695539337

Nice thanks. Seems like it is catching a little less air and removing the vortex that would have been created by the top edge.

I imagine McLaren will be competitive on the straight this weekend. Might be an effort to recover predictability in qualifying that Stella has mentioned has gone away from them a bit recently

[mwillems]

Nice thanks. Seems like it is catching a little less air and removing the vortex that would have been created by the top edge.

I imagine McLaren will be competitive on the straight this weekend. Might be an effort to recover predictability in qualifying that Stella has mentioned has gone away from them a bit recently

It could be I guess. Although it feels like it is the front that is not being predictable from the quotes when they suggested it was the reason for entry , apex problems and then responsible for not being able to get the car pointed right for the exit. Hopefully we will hear later on what this might do. Might it help when DRS is open? I'd imagine that the 90 degree edges that were there previously would still generate vortices when the DRS was open, will this perhaps lessen the drag with DRS open?

[101FlyingDutchman]

I think our problem has been for a while that we have a relatively lazy front end. Might not be necessarily front wing related (possibly CoP and CoG interaction?)
And as Lando has said, the initial turn in just is lazy so it forces him to drive more in a V rather than his preferred (and faster) way of taking the corner

[djos]

Even with the Aero instability it is in tandem with how the car works with the tires to make a contact patch and to provide a stable platform for the Aero to work. I think the team did some work in Singapore to improve the window with which the car can deal with outwash and tire wake to help the floor stay sealed and to get optimum downforce in these corners. And the added downforce in these corners has clearly helped. Getting the floor to help the nose stay pinned down efficiently is only going to bring more time to the car.

But whilst some work can always happen to improve this aspect, you'd say the area where we are yet to get our teeth into has been mapping the cars ability in the corners when in the wind tunnel, so that suspension and Aero can properly be designed to work closely together with none of the surprises we have had this year, or at least less surprises! Because you'd have to say the inability to design and tune these aspects to work together must be a big handicap. Even without Rob Marshall getting to help with this aspect for testing, I'm super excited for what the team will produce.

I noticed in the team video that we couldn't see the platform that the car sits on in the wind tunnel, so I'm assuming it must be really cutting edge and doing something pretty rare or unusual.

The new tunnel should be huge for next years car. The old Toyota tunnel apparently doesn’t allow work to be done in yaw which seems like a contributing factor to the current issue.

Yeah. I suspect if it were just Yaw or pitch they were testing they wouldn't hide it, I don't know how much they can test, can they do some load tests also to simulate the loads on the car in the corners to get the suspension, chassis and tyres to show their behaviour ? Rather than "only" position the car as if it were in a certain phase of the corner? I'd love to know more about what they can do with this rig.

Edit: For all I know they just had a model in there they didn't want us to see, perhaps I am over-egging the wind tunnel custard

Iirc, the tunnel regs are pretty strict, so I’d say your guess about hiding a development model is more likely.

[mwillems]

You've got me curious about the tunnel regs now...

[djos]

You've got me curious about the tunnel regs now...

There's a pretty good explanation here:

https://allf1.in/wind-tunnels-and-novelty-rule/

In a nutshell:

No RWTT may be carried out using a scale model and RATG which is greater than 60% of full size neither may it be carried out at a wind tunnel air speed exceeding 50m/s measured relative to the scale model and RATG. Furthermore, during restricted wind tunnel testing the magnitude of the rate of change of the wind tunnel air speed measured relative to the scale model and RATG must be less than 4.5m/s?. The rate of change of the wind tunnel air speed will be defined as the derivative of wind tunnel air speed and smoothed using a moving average filter, centred on each sample, of period 0.5 seconds during each wind tunnel air speed ramp up and ramp down phase. These phases are defined as the periods when the wind tunnel air speed is varying between 15m/s and 95% of the maximum wind
tunnel air speed during a run…

You can build a crazy advanced tunnel, but you must stay within those defined parameters for testing.

[mwillems]

I had read that one, but couldn't see anything about how the model can be positioned or loads simulated (If they even can)