2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[mstar]

Didn't i read somewhere that the tight packaging had challenges and sacrificed performance? but they thought having zero pods out-weighted the little tiny disadvantage for the PU?

[Luscion]

Didn't i read somewhere that the tight packaging had challenges and sacrificed performance? but they thought having zero pods out-weighted the little tiny disadvantage for the PU?

Yea it was reported in october by formulapassion that merc made significant compromises with their engine because they thought the zero pods would make up for it so all the components were designed to be as small as possibly allowed and that with the W15 Merc dont have to make those sacrifices anymore. They said it has all been confirmed by an engineer they spoke to and that a contact in the team told them based on data, Merc's engine shows to be the most effective ( i assume they mean without the zero pods). How true all of this is, who knows. Duchessa also said that 10hp is worth about 0.2secs so it depends on how much less HP merc are producing rn the amount they can gain in lap time from just their engine

https://www.formulapassion.it/opinioni/ ... nza-motore

[Venturiation]

This ls where he says they had to build the PU for the zero pods

[avantman]

I think Norris was quite direct and clear saying "I have more power[than Max]" in the interview [after the Sprint it was?] in Brazil.

[chrisc90]

I think Norris was quite direct and clear saying "I have more power[than Max]" in the interview [after the Sprint it was?] in Brazil.

Probably down to deployment. Look what happened in the race when Norris managed to challenge for 1-2 laps and then Max dropped him by 1.7s in a handful of corners.

I wonder what changes they made to the PU. I imagine they will be able to re-develop any cooling/radiators to allow them to run in sidepods. It will have be a fairly big chunk of money id imagine.

[AR3-GP]

Didn't i read somewhere that the tight packaging had challenges and sacrificed performance? but they thought having zero pods out-weighted the little tiny disadvantage for the PU?

Yea it was reported in october by formulapassion that merc made significant compromises with their engine because they thought the zero pods would make up for it so all the components were designed to be as small as possibly allowed and that with the W15 Merc dont have to make those sacrifices anymore. They said it has all been confirmed by an engineer they spoke to and that a contact in the team told them based on data, Merc's engine shows to be the most effective ( i assume they mean without the zero pods). How true all of this is, who knows. Duchessa also said that 10hp is worth about 0.2secs so it depends on how much less HP merc are producing rn the amount they can gain in lap time from just their engine

https://www.formulapassion.it/opinioni/ ... nza-motore

This zero pod decision had a significant ripple effect, not just to Mercedes but also to their customers. AMR and Mclaren would have benefitted from more power, without being hindered by the aero decisions of the factory Mercedes team.

[Hammerfist]

IMO The mistake they made was to not run any soft tire in the lone free practice session. They ran the hard tire for long runs and thought the deg was fine.

[GrizzleBoy]

They also were blocked during their only quali sims at the end of FP1. They never got to set a representative lap.

[AR3-GP]

Apparently, the british press is not happy with the car that Mercedes is providing to their British drivers:

"There is more chance of Lewis Hamilton winning an eighth world championship with Blackpool Tower Circus than with Mercedes," the DailyMail said. "One wonders whether Toto Wolff is a team principal capable of turning the tide. He lives in Monaco when the factory is in Brackley, Northamptonshire, an emblem of his detachment. Formula One history suggests the boss must be first in and last out, day in and day out. Wolff, 51, is hardly heading back to the Riviera content this time."

The Sun Newspaper lands somewhere between the two outlets mentioned above but does suggest Wolff would've been fired in the football world. The Sun acknowledges that questions need to be asked, and doubt has been raised again, but it's not as strong as the Blackpool Circus.

"It was a shocker for the former world champions, who look shadows of their former selves and again raises doubts if they will ever be able to catch Red Bull. If he were a manager of a Premier League football club, the dreadful form over the past two seasons would have Merc boss Toto Wolff facing the axe."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/247677/b ... ircus.html

I figure there will be calls for Lewis to go back to Mclaren.

[Farnborough]

Apparently, the british press is not happy with the car that Mercedes is providing to their British drivers:

"There is more chance of Lewis Hamilton winning an eighth world championship with Blackpool Tower Circus than with Mercedes," the DailyMail said. "One wonders whether Toto Wolff is a team principal capable of turning the tide. He lives in Monaco when the factory is in Brackley, Northamptonshire, an emblem of his detachment. Formula One history suggests the boss must be first in and last out, day in and day out. Wolff, 51, is hardly heading back to the Riviera content this time."

The Sun Newspaper lands somewhere between the two outlets mentioned above but does suggest Wolff would've been fired in the football world. The Sun acknowledges that questions need to be asked, and doubt has been raised again, but it's not as strong as the Blackpool Circus.

"It was a shocker for the former world champions, who look shadows of their former selves and again raises doubts if they will ever be able to catch Red Bull. If he were a manager of a Premier League football club, the dreadful form over the past two seasons would have Merc boss Toto Wolff facing the axe."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/247677/b ... ircus.html

I figure there will be calls for Lewis to go back to Mclaren.

Typical of British press, for "racing" they only think horses, for "sport" they only think football, and certainly don't give reliable reporting to the motor racing picture. UNLESS they can sensationalise some elements of it, just a non-story otherwise to them. Must be a slow press period to turn their spotlight on MB TW & LH etc.

And they absolutely LOVE anyone that lives in Monaco while having anything to do do with running a company in Britain. That's always encoded titling of "rich b*stard" in colloquial press talk in UK.

They dont give the outlook of most true F1 interested parties in Britain, not worth quoting.

[j_ste]

Apparently, the british press is not happy with the car that Mercedes is providing to their British drivers:

"There is more chance of Lewis Hamilton winning an eighth world championship with Blackpool Tower Circus than with Mercedes," the DailyMail said. "One wonders whether Toto Wolff is a team principal capable of turning the tide. He lives in Monaco when the factory is in Brackley, Northamptonshire, an emblem of his detachment. Formula One history suggests the boss must be first in and last out, day in and day out. Wolff, 51, is hardly heading back to the Riviera content this time."

The Sun Newspaper lands somewhere between the two outlets mentioned above but does suggest Wolff would've been fired in the football world. The Sun acknowledges that questions need to be asked, and doubt has been raised again, but it's not as strong as the Blackpool Circus.

"It was a shocker for the former world champions, who look shadows of their former selves and again raises doubts if they will ever be able to catch Red Bull. If he were a manager of a Premier League football club, the dreadful form over the past two seasons would have Merc boss Toto Wolff facing the axe."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/247677/b ... ircus.html

I figure there will be calls for Lewis to go back to Mclaren.

You dont know british media if you think the Sun or Daily Mail give a crap about Lewis Hamilton after near two decades of trashing him.


Just easy clicks for them in a rage economy

[TFSA]

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/247677/b ... ircus.html

I figure there will be calls for Lewis to go back to Mclaren.

The media is pushing a rather sh*tty narrative, as always. And given that the media in question is The Sun and DailyMail, rather than actual Motorsports outlets, there's even less reason to take these two and their "calls" seriously.

If going from 1st to 3th to 2nd in the WCC out of 10 teams, is worthy of being fired over, then every top team would crumble, because their team principles would be fired left and right. Alpine, a midfield team, recently fired Otmar, and that wasn't exactly taken very well. And I'm pretty sure Red Bull wouldn't be as succesful as they are now, if they had fired Horner after 2014/2015.

This is plain and simply incompetent journalism at its worst, and using false tropes like "Formula One history suggests the boss must be first in and last out" isn't lending them any credibility either. I'm pretty sure Horner and Newey isn't the first in and last out, and I'm pretty sure Toto wasn't either when Mercedes were winning. Simply shaking things up for the sake of shaking things up isn't the way forward.

[CHT]

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/247677/b ... ircus.html

I figure there will be calls for Lewis to go back to Mclaren.

The media is pushing a rather sh*tty narrative, as always. And given that the media in question is The Sun and DailyMail, rather than actual Motorsports outlets, there's even less reason to take these two and their "calls" seriously.

If going from 1st to 3th to 2nd in the WCC out of 10 teams, is worthy of being fired over, then every top team would crumble, because their team principles would be fired left and right. Alpine, a midfield team, recently fired Otmar, and that wasn't exactly taken very well. And I'm pretty sure Red Bull wouldn't be as succesful as they are now, if they had fired Horner after 2014/2015.

This is plain and simply incompetent journalism at its worst, and using false tropes like "Formula One history suggests the boss must be first in and last out" isn't lending them any credibility either. I'm pretty sure Horner and Newey isn't the first in and last out, and I'm pretty sure Toto wasn't either when Mercedes were winning. Simply shaking things up for the sake of shaking things up isn't the way forward.

Toto's future as team principal for Mercedes now lies in the hands of Daimler and INEOS. I have reason to believe that INEOS must have paid a significant amount when they bought a 33% stake in Merc F1 during the peak, and Toto may have felt pressured to deliver the result for their other shareholders, ie. from 8 consecutive WCC to zero victories.
Toto's position right now may be very similar to Ron Dennis back in 2009, who was pressured to step down. If Toto cannot turn the team around I reckon he may have to take a back seat.

[basti313]

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/247677/b ... ircus.html

I figure there will be calls for Lewis to go back to Mclaren.

The media is pushing a rather sh*tty narrative, as always. And given that the media in question is The Sun and DailyMail, rather than actual Motorsports outlets, there's even less reason to take these two and their "calls" seriously.

If going from 1st to 3th to 2nd in the WCC out of 10 teams, is worthy of being fired over, then every top team would crumble, because their team principles would be fired left and right. Alpine, a midfield team, recently fired Otmar, and that wasn't exactly taken very well. And I'm pretty sure Red Bull wouldn't be as succesful as they are now, if they had fired Horner after 2014/2015.

This is plain and simply incompetent journalism at its worst, and using false tropes like "Formula One history suggests the boss must be first in and last out" isn't lending them any credibility either. I'm pretty sure Horner and Newey isn't the first in and last out, and I'm pretty sure Toto wasn't either when Mercedes were winning. Simply shaking things up for the sake of shaking things up isn't the way forward.

Toto's future as team principal for Mercedes now lies in the hands of Daimler and INEOS. I have reason to believe that INEOS must have paid a significant amount when they bought a 33% stake in Merc F1 during the peak, and Toto may have felt pressured to deliver the result for their other shareholders, ie. from 8 consecutive WCC to zero victories.
Toto's position right now may be very similar to Ron Dennis back in 2009, who was pressured to step down. If Toto cannot turn the team around I reckon he may have to take a back seat.

Ron Dennis did not have 33% of the team in his pocket. He could be pushed out as any other manager.
To push out Toto, Merc and INEOS need to be 100% sure and 100% aligned. I can imagine that INEOS takes this shunt. But Merc? Never...it would need a clear position from Ola against Toto and Ola would never weaken his own position with such a controversy step. He is always indefinite in these things.

So the only way I can picture Toto leaving is him just calling it a day and stepping back. But given the point that he even had a direct connection to the pit stand from the hospital...I do not see him being motivated to step back. He had the good and easy chance to take a 4 week break in a season where it does not matter, to test Allison on his position and did not take it. That is telling.

[chrisc90]

Other way is he remains a director and gets a new team principle in to run the show.