2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[taperoo2k]

At the hands of Max, the RB19 is nearly unbeatable on race trim.

Its impossible to beat something that holds the same level of high performance for the entire tire stint.

McLaren may start the stint a bit faster, but it cant maintain it. And its not that much faster than the RedBull to the point where the drop off doesn't make a big differencen.

On the net, RedBull is much faster.

And heck, in Brazil even Perez had incredible tire wear performance. He was battling with Alonso for the good part of 20-30 laps and there was no significant wear on that thing.

The RB19 is much faster than the MCL60 over a single lap too, it’s just Lando that makes it look the other way round

I have a lot of respect for Lando as a driver, but I still dont think he is quicker than Max on a single lap.

Maybe on a good day. But thats not taking anything away from Lando to be honest. In my opinion, I dont think anyone, not even Lewis would outqualify Max over a full season on the same car.

And if you remember during the quarantine, especially on GT3 races in iracing, Lando did not have that final tenth in him to beat Max.

With Lando? You just don't know until he has a car that can challenge Max directly. I think Alonso or Lewis in the same car as Max would see an incredibly tight battle. We saw in 2021 just how rattled Max can get when he's up against somebody as ruthless as Lewis can be.

If all goes well with the '24 car then I hope McLaren aren't too far off the Red Bull, so that we get more of a fight.
However I wonder if it'll be Piastri that poses a bigger challenge for Max than Lando?

[AR3-GP]

nice intervention, whoever that was

[BMMR61]

Mwillems - I wasn’t backhanding you with my “lazy” opinion about the gap to McLaren - it was pundits in general! My thoughts about the Brazil race being a more representative (and current) litmus test are contrary to many more experienced commentators than my humble self (a fifty-something year fan of F1)! No, the McLaren isn’t right now a much slower race or qualifying car than the RB19. Max and the winning mentality and experience behind him are making the biggest difference. Yes all the analysis of greater tyre deg on the MCL are accurate. Sometimes the difference between being able to grab hold of victory, as opposed to inheriting it, comes down to a winning mentality and the confidence that goes with it. A few races ago, I would have enertained the idea that Lando may not have the toughness and guile to be one of those types of real winner, but I think Mexico’s drive felt like a breakthrough from which he might kick on to another level. With Mercedes and Aston Martin so incapable of providing a decent race car much of the time, Lando is the one carrying the “burden” of harrying Max and Interlagos was the best exhibition of that. Another Silverstone type of circuit and I think he’d go wheel to wheel with Max but he needs these really competitive outings to become a genuine and eventually regular winner. No, RedBull aren’t as far ahead as many dismissively claim, it’s the Max factor (pun intended!), Max and a battle hardened engineering and strategic team. McLaren will be learning more now they’re pushing Max in the races rather than protecting their position.

[the EDGE]

With Lando? You just don't know until he has a car that can challenge Max directly. I think Alonso or Lewis in the same car as Max would see an incredibly tight battle. We saw in 2021 just how rattled Max can get when he's up against somebody as ruthless as Lewis can be.

If all goes well with the '24 car then I hope McLaren aren't too far off the Red Bull, so that we get more of a fight.
However I wonder if it'll be Piastri that poses a bigger challenge for Max than Lando?

Oscar’s doing great job, but he’s not a match for Lando yet

If you look at who are considered the outstanding drivers that have entered F1, and include Lando in that, they have all matched their teammate, or even beaten them, in their first year (1 even went up against the reigning WC)

Lando, for example, beat his very talented team mate in the quali head to head, and was just a handful of points behind by the end of the season

Now I accept Lando has had 2 good updates a race early, but even adding 36 points to Oscar’s tally, he still falls well short and is a long way of in the Quali head 2 head

And before anyone says it, yes he’s had some DNFs or had to run races with damage, which were not his fault, but had he qualified better, then he could have avoided some of that, besides, I seem to remember Lando suffering with mechanical DNFs in his first year too, otherwise he probably would have beat Carlos

Now as I said, I’m not taking anything away from Oscar, he’s certainly highly talented and F1 tyres are probably a lot harder to master then when previous top-level drivers were rookies, but let’s not forget what Lando has achieved in his 5 years, driving a car for the most part far from the best, and what his still achieving race after race today.

Lando’s first win may have not come yet, but boy he’s more than earned it time & time again

[mwillems]

Mwillems - I wasn’t backhanding you with my “lazy” opinion about the gap to McLaren - it was pundits in general! My thoughts about the Brazil race being a more representative (and current) litmus test are contrary to many more experienced commentators than my humble self (a fifty-something year fan of F1)! No, the McLaren isn’t right now a much slower race or qualifying car than the RB19. Max and the winning mentality and experience behind him are making the biggest difference. Yes all the analysis of greater tyre deg on the MCL are accurate. Sometimes the difference between being able to grab hold of victory, as opposed to inheriting it, comes down to a winning mentality and the confidence that goes with it. A few races ago, I would have enertained the idea that Lando may not have the toughness and guile to be one of those types of real winner, but I think Mexico’s drive felt like a breakthrough from which he might kick on to another level. With Mercedes and Aston Martin so incapable of providing a decent race car much of the time, Lando is the one carrying the “burden” of harrying Max and Interlagos was the best exhibition of that. Another Silverstone type of circuit and I think he’d go wheel to wheel with Max but he needs these really competitive outings to become a genuine and eventually regular winner. No, RedBull aren’t as far ahead as many dismissively claim, it’s the Max factor (pun intended!), Max and a battle hardened engineering and strategic team. McLaren will be learning more now they’re pushing Max in the races rather than protecting their position.

I know, I was laughing

[BMMR61]

With Lando? You just don't know until he has a car that can challenge Max directly. I think Alonso or Lewis in the same car as Max would see an incredibly tight battle. We saw in 2021 just how rattled Max can get when he's up against somebody as ruthless as Lewis can be.

If all goes well with the '24 car then I hope McLaren aren't too far off the Red Bull, so that we get more of a fight.
However I wonder if it'll be Piastri that poses a bigger challenge for Max than Lando?

Oscar’s doing great job, but he’s not a match for Lando yet

If you look at who are considered the outstanding drivers that have entered F1, and include Lando in that, they have all matched their teammate, or even beaten them, in their first year (1 even went up against the reigning WC)

Lando, for example, beat his very talented team mate in the quali head to head, and was just a handful of points behind by the end of the season

Now I accept Lando has had 2 good updates a race early, but even adding 36 points to Oscar’s tally, he still falls well short and is a long way of in the Quali head 2 head

And before anyone says it, yes he’s had some DNFs or had to run races with damage, which were not his fault, but had he qualified better, then he could have avoided some of that, besides, I seem to remember Lando suffering with mechanical DNFs in his first year too, otherwise he probably would have beat Carlos

Now as I said, I’m not taking anything away from Oscar, he’s certainly highly talented and F1 tyres are probably a lot harder to master then when previous top-level drivers were rookies, but let’s not forget what Lando has achieved in his 5 years, driving a car for the most part far from the best, and what his still achieving race after race today.

Lando’s first win may have not come yet, but boy he’s more than earned it time & time again

Lando’s own comments about Oscar reveal how hard he has been pushed. Carlos was more than a match for Lando as he pursued race before qualifying and was usually quite superior on racecraft. Oscar is discovering how steep the learning curve is in F1 as he seeks tyre management skills so difficult especially in this ground effect era. Although I’m an enthusiastic supporter of Oscar I’m actually relieved that Lando has kicked on and secured his real number one status in the team. Oscar’s time will come - talents and racing brains like his don’t emerge often, McLaren are spared for now the discomfort of two drivers at war with each other.

[Dafnalina]

I think Lando had it easier against Carlos as compared to Oscar when it comes to qualifying.
Lando was driving in mostly familiar tracks, and they were both new to the car.
Oscar has been to a lot of new tracks, a lot of them without practice, and has to go against someone on their 5th year in the team. He's outqualified Lando in some tracks he's never raced in before.

If anything, I think qualifying is Oscar's strenght more than Lando's, at least this season.

I have a feeling Oscar will do really well in Vegas. He's used to working his way up on a new track, he's done well in cold tracks and the circuit will be kind on the tyres.

The only thing I wouldn't like is for Oscar to get a GP win first, only cause Lando gets so much slack in social media already, and he's doing amazing.

[djos]

I think Lando had it easier against Carlos as compared to Oscar when it comes to qualifying.
Lando was driving in mostly familiar tracks, and they were both new to the car.
Oscar has been to a lot of new tracks, a lot of them without practice, and has to go against someone on their 5th year in the team. He's outqualified Lando in some tracks he's never raced in before.

If anything, I think qualifying is Oscar's strenght more than Lando's, at least this season.

I have a feeling Oscar will do really well in Vegas. He's used to working his way up on a new track, he's done well in cold tracks and the circuit will be kind on the tyres.

The only thing I wouldn't like is for Oscar to get a GP win first, only cause Lando gets so much slack in social media already, and he's doing amazing.

Oscar already has an F1 race win, so he’s half way there.

[Dafnalina]

I think Lando had it easier against Carlos as compared to Oscar when it comes to qualifying.
Lando was driving in mostly familiar tracks, and they were both new to the car.
Oscar has been to a lot of new tracks, a lot of them without practice, and has to go against someone on their 5th year in the team. He's outqualified Lando in some tracks he's never raced in before.

If anything, I think qualifying is Oscar's strenght more than Lando's, at least this season.

I have a feeling Oscar will do really well in Vegas. He's used to working his way up on a new track, he's done well in cold tracks and the circuit will be kind on the tyres.

The only thing I wouldn't like is for Oscar to get a GP win first, only cause Lando gets so much slack in social media already, and he's doing amazing.

Oscar already has an F1 race win, so he’s half way there.

Yeah, and I so how that went for Lando online, so I wouldn't like a repeat

[Mostlyeels]

If anything, I think qualifying is Oscar's strenght more than Lando's, at least this season.

Lately they seem neck and neck up until Q3, where sometimes Oscar makes a mistake and Lando aces it (with notable exceptions!) What I hear people saying recently is that quali is easier for a driver to get fast at, and race pace takes longer to pick up. I think Oscar's been lucky in that he's learning on the job from a driver much better than him at that, so I expect he will be improving greatly. Honestly, I feel like these next few years will be a great time to be a McLaren fan.

[Swed3121]

Any idea on how our car deals with tyre turn on and maintaining heat, as well as cold temperatures, Vegas is looking to be aroun 3-5c* during the race weekend, something no team has prepared for this year, could this be the time to pull on over on RB and Max

[K1Plus]

Any idea on how our car deals with tyre turn on and maintaining heat, as well as cold temperatures, Vegas is looking to be aroun 3-5c* during the race weekend, something no team has prepared for this year, could this be the time to pull on over on RB and Max

Well I recall Brundle mentioning almost every race that "McLaren fires its tires up better than anybody."

[mwillems]

Any idea on how our car deals with tyre turn on and maintaining heat, as well as cold temperatures, Vegas is looking to be aroun 3-5c* during the race weekend, something no team has prepared for this year, could this be the time to pull on over on RB and Max

Well I recall Brundle mentioning almost every race that "McLaren fires its tires up better than anybody."

Yes but that was not a great thing once we were in the race as we were getting the tyres too warm and it took a fair bit of management to keep them in the right window.

This appears to have calmed down a bit now, not sure where exactly the balance is now but I haven't seen anything that suggests they unduly overheat in the race or that they don't warm up in a positive way at the start. Someone else might have some better observations, but it seems fine from what I can see lately.

[SiLo]

Any idea on how our car deals with tyre turn on and maintaining heat, as well as cold temperatures, Vegas is looking to be aroun 3-5c* during the race weekend, something no team has prepared for this year, could this be the time to pull on over on RB and Max

Well I recall Brundle mentioning almost every race that "McLaren fires its tires up better than anybody."

Yes but that was not a great thing once we were in the race as we were getting the tyres too warm and it took a fair bit of management to keep them in the right window.

This appears to have calmed down a bit now, not sure where exactly the balance is now but I haven't seen anything that suggests they unduly overheat in the race or that they don't warm up in a positive way at the start. Someone else might have some better observations, but it seems fine from what I can see lately.

For Vegas it's a positive, but they may still see more deg vs other teams on longer runs. I get the feeling the race will be 1 stop, so firing up the tyres after the pitstop quickly might net Mclaren quite a few seconds vs another team that can't.

[taperoo2k]

Any idea on how our car deals with tyre turn on and maintaining heat, as well as cold temperatures, Vegas is looking to be aroun 3-5c* during the race weekend, something no team has prepared for this year, could this be the time to pull on over on RB and Max

McLaren seems to warm tyres up nicely, Red Bull seems able to keep tyres in the optimal operating
window longer than McLaren can.

Tyres, Brakes and PU's will all have issues if the temperatures are that low. Getting everything upto operating temperatures and keeping them there will be one of the big challenges. Getting the PU's warmed up in the garages will be no issue, keeping the PU at operating temps on the grid with the PU switched off? Might cause some drama.