2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[the EDGE]

Just a few weeks ago the forum was deluged in speculation about the high likelihood of Lando requiring a new PU. The reasoning seemed sound - first unit destroyed in round 1 at Bahrain. Yet here we are, 2 to go and we're on a track with 80% full throttle (simulations) and a 1.9 kilometre straight. Is the power of recycling of the Mercedes ICE across FP/Qualifying/Race being underestimated? It would seem that the Vegas circuit will present a heavy burden on engine reliability, albeit, without some of the heat issues of the last few races.

In one of the last races - team stream answered a question about why Lando did not replace his engine. Their answer was that the teams now have a lot of data about engine reliability and power and that it was not needed. The engine parts he has are good enough.

I wonder if cost cap may be another reason for it but they didn't mention it.

PU costs are excluded from the cost cap

[organic]

If the Monza spec with gurney flap doesn't offer enough downforce, what is the alternative for McLaren this weekend? Is their next step up the Suzuka wing?

[djos]

Just a few weeks ago the forum was deluged in speculation about the high likelihood of Lando requiring a new PU. The reasoning seemed sound - first unit destroyed in round 1 at Bahrain. Yet here we are, 2 to go and we're on a track with 80% full throttle (simulations) and a 1.9 kilometre straight. Is the power of recycling of the Mercedes ICE across FP/Qualifying/Race being underestimated? It would seem that the Vegas circuit will present a heavy burden on engine reliability, albeit, without some of the heat issues of the last few races.

In one of the last races - team stream answered a question about why Lando did not replace his engine. Their answer was that the teams now have a lot of data about engine reliability and power and that it was not needed. The engine parts he has are good enough.

I wonder if cost cap may be another reason for it but they didn't mention it.

PU costs are excluded from the cost cap

Since when?

AIUI, the PU supply costs are capped at 15 million plus any extra PU’s or components outside of the standard allocation.

Most sources say “All parts on the car (from the steering wheel to the wheel nuts) + All the elements needed to run the car” are in the cost cap.

[the EDGE]

In one of the last races - team stream answered a question about why Lando did not replace his engine. Their answer was that the teams now have a lot of data about engine reliability and power and that it was not needed. The engine parts he has are good enough.

I wonder if cost cap may be another reason for it but they didn't mention it.

PU costs are excluded from the cost cap

Since when?

AIUI, the PU supply costs are capped at 15 million plus any extra PU’s or components outside of the standard allocation.

Most sources say “All parts on the car (from the steering wheel to the wheel nuts) + All the elements needed to run the car” are in the cost cap.

What doesn’t come under the F1 cost cap?
There are several big-ticket things that aren’t covered by the cost cap, including:
Driver salaries
The wages of the three highest-paid staff members
Travel costs
Marketing spend
Property and legal costs
Entry and licence fees
Any non-F1 or road car activities
Parental and sick leave payments
Employee bonuses and staff medical benefits

Engines – which are more complex because some teams make their own while others buy them – are covered by their own set of cost regulations.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/formu ... /10379447/

[mwillems]

Are we certain that the engine that went at the start of the year wasn't at some point recovered?

[djos]

PU costs are excluded from the cost cap

Since when?

AIUI, the PU supply costs are capped at 15 million plus any extra PU’s or components outside of the standard allocation.

Most sources say “All parts on the car (from the steering wheel to the wheel nuts) + All the elements needed to run the car” are in the cost cap.

What doesn’t come under the F1 cost cap?
There are several big-ticket things that aren’t covered by the cost cap, including:
Driver salaries
The wages of the three highest-paid staff members
Travel costs
Marketing spend
Property and legal costs
Entry and licence fees
Any non-F1 or road car activities
Parental and sick leave payments
Employee bonuses and staff medical benefits

Engines – which are more complex because some teams make their own while others buy them – are covered by their own set of cost regulations.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/formu ... /10379447/

I think you are conflating engine manufacturing and maintenance costs with the “team supply” cost. The latter is in the cost cap.

[mwillems]

Since when?

AIUI, the PU supply costs are capped at 15 million plus any extra PU’s or components outside of the standard allocation.

Most sources say “All parts on the car (from the steering wheel to the wheel nuts) + All the elements needed to run the car” are in the cost cap.

What doesn’t come under the F1 cost cap?
There are several big-ticket things that aren’t covered by the cost cap, including:
Driver salaries
The wages of the three highest-paid staff members
Travel costs
Marketing spend
Property and legal costs
Entry and licence fees
Any non-F1 or road car activities
Parental and sick leave payments
Employee bonuses and staff medical benefits

Engines – which are more complex because some teams make their own while others buy them – are covered by their own set of cost regulations.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/formu ... /10379447/

I think you are conflating engine manufacturing and maintenance costs with the “team supply” cost. The latter is in the cost cap.

Nah the wording is here and it does answer the question. All cost UP TO the maximum amount, so do we have to pay extra for more engines? If we do then it is under the cap... if there are indeed any more costs.

Do we pay extra for engines or is it part of the agreement with Merc to supply extra if there are blow outs? We have some spares at each race under the agreement, how may spares? Would these spares simply be the extra engines we use or do we pull extra into the pool? If the engine goes after one race, does the contract stipulate these costs are covered by Merc? We surely aren't liable for all extra costs in all circumstances.

I don't think we will have any idea why they didn't get another engine for Lando until the team tell us.

(n) All costs of goods and services within the Power Unit Supply Perimeter for use by the
F1 Team, up to an amount in any Full Year Reporting Period equal to the applicable
maximum price as set out in the Sporting Regulations;

[organic]

Are we certain that the engine that went at the start of the year wasn't at some point recovered?

No we never really hear about that sort of thing. At the time it sounded like it was a fairly sure thing it's toast..

Do you know what McLaren's next step up in downforce would be if the Monza wing isn't enough this weekend?

[mwillems]

Are we certain that the engine that went at the start of the year wasn't at some point recovered?

No we never really hear about that sort of thing. At the time it sounded like it was a fairly sure thing it's toast..

Do you know what McLaren's next step up in downforce would be if the Monza wing isn't enough this weekend?

I think it would be the Spa wing, I don't think we have an in-between and I think the Spa wing may be a bit much. I'm not sure yet if they have brought it for some testing, or what beam wing config they have.

[mwillems]

To add to the engine conversation... I just went through the telemetry of the races from and including Japan. There is no indication that Lando has any engine disadvantage.

If you continue to look at speeds further back, Oscar doesn't appear to have had a speed boost from his new engine either, everything looks to be the same.

On pure sporting grounds, I think a bit much is being made of the engine, and I do wonder if they found a way to recover that engine that blew.

[Tomsky]

Are we certain that the engine that went at the start of the year wasn't at some point recovered?

No we never really hear about that sort of thing. At the time it sounded like it was a fairly sure thing it's toast..

Do you know what McLaren's next step up in downforce would be if the Monza wing isn't enough this weekend?

Two wings were tested in Monza, maybe they will choose from them.

[mwillems]

Are we certain that the engine that went at the start of the year wasn't at some point recovered?

No we never really hear about that sort of thing. At the time it sounded like it was a fairly sure thing it's toast..

Do you know what McLaren's next step up in downforce would be if the Monza wing isn't enough this weekend?

Two wings were tested in Monza, maybe they will choose from them.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F4-CoxCXoAA ... ame=medium

That right wing is largely the spa wing with a cutout on the DRS flap. So to be fair it looks like they have a selection as they also have the Spa wing to choose from with no cutout.

[Swed3121]

Are we certain that the engine that went at the start of the year wasn't at some point recovered?

No we never really hear about that sort of thing. At the time it sounded like it was a fairly sure thing it's toast..

Do you know what McLaren's next step up in downforce would be if the Monza wing isn't enough this weekend?

Have to say, would be really surprised if they didn’t manage to recover the engine, not because it wasn’t heavily damaged but running a full season on 2 PUs would be a miracle when only 2 years ago, they couldn’t last more than 2/3 of the season with 3

[Swed3121]

Any idea if MCL is running a special livery here, lots of teams seem to be doing so and McL seem like the type of team to do so

[organic]

Are we certain that the engine that went at the start of the year wasn't at some point recovered?

No we never really hear about that sort of thing. At the time it sounded like it was a fairly sure thing it's toast..

Do you know what McLaren's next step up in downforce would be if the Monza wing isn't enough this weekend?

Have to say, would be really surprised if they didn’t manage to recover the engine, not because it wasn’t heavily damaged but running a full season on 2 PUs would be a miracle when only 2 years ago, they couldn’t last more than 2/3 of the season with 3

For 2023 they increased the number of allowed ICE, MGU-K, Mgu-H, turbo from 3 to 4. So losing an engine at Bahrain would mean running the season on 3 engines.

We should remember that Russell completely lost an engine at Australia with a catastrophic failure.. and he has not needed a penalty either. So I think it's quite plausible they've not recovered the Bahrain engine

And yes mcl are using a special livery it's a bit plain