2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[Tomsky]

They said the engine couldn't be used again.

[mwillems]

Both are plausible as the engine could have been taken apart and fixed after Lando's initial quotes after Bahrain (Though this is less likely), but what the data shows is that Lando is not struggling for speed or acceleration. So whichever way they made it happen, there doesn't appear to be a need for another engine on performance grounds. You'd have to say the team must have an understanding also if there was a need on reliability grounds and they still aren't changing the engine.

Engine seems very much a non issue for me right now.

[search]

Last year Ricciardo did the full season on three units as well, so it certainly seems to be possible for the Mercedes powered cars.

[michl420]

I don`t know if the enigne is in the cap but there is a limit for the PU cost for the customer teams. I would also think there is a deal how much the season cost. If the team need 3 or 7 PU it`s the Enigine manufactures problem because the failures should be at the manufacturer's expense (as long the customer operates the enigne in the prescribed window).

[Darth-Piekus]

I'm hearing that the Vegas GP will be done under very low temperatures and whoever brings the tyres to the correct temperature will have the upper hand. If that is true it might be a big opportunity to win here considering Mclaren is the best in tyre warming.

[MCLvamos]

I'm hearing that the Vegas GP will be done under very low temperatures and whoever brings the tyres to the correct temperature will have the upper hand. If that is true it might be a big opportunity to win here considering Mclaren is the best in tyre warming.

It couls be an opportunity, whether it's us that takes it is a big question. Going off Monza and Spa we seem to be weaker on tracks when a super low DF package is required, although hopefully the Singapore upgrade has somewhat aided this area. I am skeptical of the Monza rear wing we seem to have brought, isn't this still last year's one? I thought we would have been able to make a low drag special after main car development ended, with this race and next year Monza + Vegas in mind. Anyway, the team knows better but let's see where we stand this weekend, feels like a step into the unknown which is always exciting.

[AR3-GP]

I'm hearing that the Vegas GP will be done under very low temperatures and whoever brings the tyres to the correct temperature will have the upper hand. If that is true it might be a big opportunity to win here considering Mclaren is the best in tyre warming.

It couls be an opportunity, whether it's us that takes it is a big question. Going off Monza and Spa we seem to be weaker on tracks when a super low DF package is required, although hopefully the Singapore upgrade has somewhat aided this area. I am skeptical of the Monza rear wing we seem to have brought, isn't this still last year's one? I thought we would have been able to make a low drag special after main car development ended, with this race and next year Monza + Vegas in mind. Anyway, the team knows better but let's see where we stand this weekend, feels like a step into the unknown which is always exciting.

It's the 2nd to last race of the year. Most teams are just mailing it in at this point hoping to survive on spares and used parts. If a low drag package would appear, it would only be next year.

[daren_p]

I'm hearing that the Vegas GP will be done under very low temperatures and whoever brings the tyres to the correct temperature will have the upper hand. If that is true it might be a big opportunity to win here considering Mclaren is the best in tyre warming.

Earlier in the year they were very good at warming tires, but if this still holds true after all the updates, that I'm not so sure we know.

[organic]

I guess they scrapped the plans for a low DF wing for 2023 McLaren. It seems they have decided to use the 2022 Monza RW for both Monza and Vegas this year - a small sacrifice for the progress of the Singapore package I imagine

[mwillems]

Yes I recall now, you are right, this was the 2022 wing, but I don't think much would be different if they redesigned it for 2023. Most important change they would have made is to the beam wing and I expect that was not the same as last year.

[organic]

Yes I recall now, you are right, this was the 2022 wing, but I don't think much would be different if they redesigned it for 2023. Most important change they would have made is to the beam wing and I expect that was not the same as last year.

I feel the main plane is a lot bigger and drs flap smaller than other teams' Monza wing.. meaning loss of some drs effect in quali. At beginning of 2022 lot of teams had wings like this and we've moved away from them since

For instance compare mcl frontal areas to alpine/Alfa/Ferrari/Williams who also have dedicated Monza wings

Anyway it's only one race.

[mwillems]

Yes I recall now, you are right, this was the 2022 wing, but I don't think much would be different if they redesigned it for 2023. Most important change they would have made is to the beam wing and I expect that was not the same as last year.

I feel the main plane is a lot bigger and drs flap smaller than other teams' Monza wing.. meaning loss of some drs effect in quali. At beginning of 2022 lot of teams had wings like this and we've moved away from them since

For instance compare mcl frontal areas to alpine/Alfa/Ferrari/Williams who also have dedicated Monza wings

Anyway it's only one race.

They could definitely make it smaller if they wanted to, but the wing they have is middle of the road for low DF, don't you think?

Ultimately they could trim the main plane and add winglets. Just looked at the Alpine and it is smaller for sure, Williams we could discuss but not here, it's hefty in the centre point and smaller going outwards so I'm not sure how much less drag it carries. I like it though, it looks really pretty

But overall we seem to be around 3rd or 4th lowest DF on the RW don't you think? Apart from Ferrari and those mentioned above, everyone else seems a reasonable amount bigger on the rear wing.

But what I mean to say is that if this is the DF they are happy to carry, I don't think the design would change much. If they wanted a lower DF wing I have no idea.

The Ferrari is interesting as they have a wing that will bring more gains under DRS.

[mwillems]

For everyones general comparison

[organic]

Yes I recall now, you are right, this was the 2022 wing, but I don't think much would be different if they redesigned it for 2023. Most important change they would have made is to the beam wing and I expect that was not the same as last year.

I feel the main plane is a lot bigger and drs flap smaller than other teams' Monza wing.. meaning loss of some drs effect in quali. At beginning of 2022 lot of teams had wings like this and we've moved away from them since

For instance compare mcl frontal areas to alpine/Alfa/Ferrari/Williams who also have dedicated Monza wings

Anyway it's only one race.

They could definitely make it smaller if they wanted to, but the wing they have is middle of the road for low DF, don't you think?

Ultimately they could trim the main plane and add winglets. Just looked at the Alpine and it is smaller for sure, Williams we could discuss but not here, it's hefty in the centre point and smaller going outwards so I'm not sure how much less drag it carries. I like it though, it looks really pretty

But overall we seem to be around 3rd or 4th lowest DF on the RW don't you think? Apart from Ferrari and those mentioned above, everyone else seems a reasonable amount bigger on the rear wing.

But what I mean to say is that if this is the DF they are happy to carry, I don't think the design would change much. If they wanted a lower DF wing I have no idea.

The Ferrari is interesting as they have a wing that will bring more gains under DRS.

The Ferrari is what I mean by a small main plane and a larger DRS flap: the frontal area of the mcl/Ferrari wings may be the same and top speeds similar with DRS closed but under qualifying conditions Ferrari will undoubtedly have the advantage due to DRS open topspeed being higher.

The small drs flap of the McLaren also means you can't dump as much drag when attempting overtakes in the race. With already slim wings and minimal slipstream at low drag circuits every little bit would help

All of McLaren's other wings were modified when they made the Austria & Singapore packages so it stands to reason that perhaps the old wing specs are no longer as efficient with the new package. A different flow field will have a different optimal solution

Anyway its clear that the low DF wing was shelved to make huge progress with other developments which was quite obviously the right call by Stella et al !

[mwillems]

I feel the main plane is a lot bigger and drs flap smaller than other teams' Monza wing.. meaning loss of some drs effect in quali. At beginning of 2022 lot of teams had wings like this and we've moved away from them since

For instance compare mcl frontal areas to alpine/Alfa/Ferrari/Williams who also have dedicated Monza wings

Anyway it's only one race.

They could definitely make it smaller if they wanted to, but the wing they have is middle of the road for low DF, don't you think?

Ultimately they could trim the main plane and add winglets. Just looked at the Alpine and it is smaller for sure, Williams we could discuss but not here, it's hefty in the centre point and smaller going outwards so I'm not sure how much less drag it carries. I like it though, it looks really pretty

But overall we seem to be around 3rd or 4th lowest DF on the RW don't you think? Apart from Ferrari and those mentioned above, everyone else seems a reasonable amount bigger on the rear wing.

But what I mean to say is that if this is the DF they are happy to carry, I don't think the design would change much. If they wanted a lower DF wing I have no idea.

The Ferrari is interesting as they have a wing that will bring more gains under DRS.

The Ferrari is what I mean by a small main plane and a larger DRS flap: the frontal area of the mcl/Ferrari wings may be the same and top speeds similar with DRS closed but under qualifying conditions Ferrari will undoubtedly have the advantage due to DRS open topspeed being higher.

The small drs flap of the McLaren also means you can't dump as much drag when attempting overtakes in the race. With already slim wings and minimal slipstream at low drag circuits every little bit would help

All of McLaren's other wings were modified when they made the Austria & Singapore packages so it stands to reason that perhaps the old wing specs are no longer as efficient with the new package. A different flow field will have a different optimal solution

Yeah that's definitely the case but I'm wondering also if the finer leading edge of the Ferraris DRS flap exaggerates the effect. It's curious though because I think they are the only team pushing that, certainly to that extreme. I don't have great CFD eyes to be fair, but it doesn't look like many others are doing that from what I can see. Alfas wing looks miniscule also.

It can definitely get smaller if they wanted it to, but to me it looks middle of the road I'd have to say.

Re: Wing efficiency, they continued with the Silverstone wing at Japan after testing it alongside the Singapore wing so I think it is smaller margins on the gain. Even more so here as the main benefit is separating the Horiz. and Vert. airflows of which both loads would be smaller here anyway and is already partially dealt with by having rounded edges where the sides connecting to the DRS flap comes round and down the wing support. Dutch GP had the old school Monaco wing.

But yeah the Ferrari wing does look a better option, not too concerned about the other smaller wings as I think the DF will come in useful for the race. Only the Ferrari looks advantageous to me.