2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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torpor
torpor
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Everyone at Mercedes knows that the gap to Red Bull is so large that it would take a miracle like Brawn in 2009 or Tyrell in 1971 to catch up with Red Bull before the new regulations come into effect in 2026. Especially since the RB20 is rumored to be making a significant leap forward. Wolff and all the other responsible parties in Brackley are aware that such miracles are rare in Formula 1 (even though both of my examples were achieved by the Brackley team). As the cool realist that Wolff is, one would actually align everything towards 2026 to be back at the front. I believe this rational approach is hindered by the trauma of Abu Dhabi 2021 and the advancing age of Hamilton, along with the associated uncertainty of whether he will still be in the team in 2026. Because nothing is more desired by the leaders in Brackley than to realize Hamilton’s 8th title, which he arguably should already have. And it’s precisely this that could stand in their way and lead them to partially irrational decisions.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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A lion must kill its prey.

Luscion
Luscion
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Joined: 13 Feb 2023, 01:37

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Looks like Merc figured out what went wrong in Brazil, Toto doesnt go into detail about it though, just that it was the wrong setup and they understand it now

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... x-disaster

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F1Krof
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Joined: 22 Feb 2016, 21:17

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Luscion wrote:
12 Nov 2023, 16:53
Looks like Merc figured out what went wrong in Brazil, Toto doesnt go into detail about it though, just that it was the wrong setup and they understand it now

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... x-disaster
Where did we hear that for the 50th time? #-o
Wroom wroom

Farnborough
Farnborough
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Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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torpor wrote:
12 Nov 2023, 11:26
Everyone at Mercedes knows that the gap to Red Bull is so large that it would take a miracle like Brawn in 2009 or Tyrell in 1971 to catch up with Red Bull before the new regulations come into effect in 2026. Especially since the RB20 is rumored to be making a significant leap forward. Wolff and all the other responsible parties in Brackley are aware that such miracles are rare in Formula 1 (even though both of my examples were achieved by the Brackley team). As the cool realist that Wolff is, one would actually align everything towards 2026 to be back at the front. I believe this rational approach is hindered by the trauma of Abu Dhabi 2021 and the advancing age of Hamilton, along with the associated uncertainty of whether he will still be in the team in 2026. Because nothing is more desired by the leaders in Brackley than to realize Hamilton’s 8th title, which he arguably should already have. And it’s precisely this that could stand in their way and lead them to partially irrational decisions.
No miracle needed, just a fundamental understanding of what "fits" in this era of design constraints. The blueprint is written large in big illuminated letters for everyone to see of the design approach needed to be consistently in the mix at front of field.

If they persist in statements of individuality and doing it their own way, then that may mean more to them than success measured by points and positions etc. They keep burying themselves in psychological dead ends, when its raw engineering design that can get them moving to more complete performance.

I dont feel there's any doubt they CAN produce such a vehicle, but each word they put out seems to obfuscate and give reason why they aren't in reality doing that.

I see no loss in competitive application and ability in LH this year, still a formidable driver and capable of beating many.

Next years car will show if they've really sat down to be pragmatic or proud, they've easily got the ability, they need the concise focus to go with that. There's every chance of a fundamental change in next years performance IF they take the logical route. We'll just have to wait and see their approach.

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Big Tea
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Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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The elephant (no longer) in the room at Merc is Niki.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

Ollywood1987
Ollywood1987
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Joined: 24 Aug 2022, 15:02

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Bill_Kar
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Joined: 02 Apr 2017, 09:38

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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I Think Mercedes didn't go for another Q sim, right? They were close to Ferrari - AM - RB up to the penultimate Q sim of the teams.

Luscion
Luscion
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Joined: 13 Feb 2023, 01:37

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Bill_Kar wrote:
17 Nov 2023, 13:48
I Think Mercedes didn't go for another Q sim, right? They were close to Ferrari - AM - RB up to the penultimate Q sim of the teams.
Yea, Hamilton was right up there with the Ferraris for the soft tire runs, 0.003 secs off Leclerc before Merc went to their long runs and didn't go back to doing quali runs like the others

j_ste
j_ste
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Joined: 20 Jun 2023, 02:40

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Bill_Kar wrote:
17 Nov 2023, 13:48
I Think Mercedes didn't go for another Q sim, right? They were close to Ferrari - AM - RB up to the penultimate Q sim of the teams.
Yeah. Car looks better than I thought it would.

The medium tyre didnt last long on the long runs

Luscion
Luscion
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Joined: 13 Feb 2023, 01:37

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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j_ste wrote:
17 Nov 2023, 14:16
Bill_Kar wrote:
17 Nov 2023, 13:48
I Think Mercedes didn't go for another Q sim, right? They were close to Ferrari - AM - RB up to the penultimate Q sim of the teams.
Yeah. Car looks better than I thought it would.

The medium tyre didnt last long on the long runs
Yea and good thing is Lewis and George didn't seem bothered by the deg at all in their interviews, said everyone is experiencing it. So hopefully it's not Brazil all over again

mkay
mkay
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Car is fast in a straight line but is losing heaps of time through corners. Looking like the 4th best team right now.

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organic
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Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Degradation/graining on the mediums looked REALLY bad again..

Comparing Lewis (new Mediums to Max (13 lap old mediums) who had similar degradation to Ferrari

Image

Last 4 laps are a separate soft long run

I think they aren't running enough DF for the tyres
Last edited by organic on 17 Nov 2023, 16:13, edited 2 times in total.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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mkay wrote:
17 Nov 2023, 15:36
Car is fast in a straight line but is losing heaps of time through corners. Looking like the 4th best team right now.
Hamilton had perfect tows on the back straight (vegas strip) and finishing the lap on his fastest lap so I think the straight line speed is deceiving for that lap in specific.

Image
Last edited by AR3-GP on 17 Nov 2023, 16:15, edited 1 time in total.
A lion must kill its prey.

Bill_Kar
Bill_Kar
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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organic wrote:
17 Nov 2023, 16:07
Degradation/graining on the mediums looked REALLY bad again..

Comparing Lewis (new Mediums to Max (13 lap old mediums) who had similar degradation to Ferrari

https://i.imgur.com/0FcET0W.png

I think they aren't running enough DF for the tyres
Kinda imagined that since Merc was quite fast in a straight line. I also don't get why GR is significantly faster than LH in the race simulation. Maybe different programmes and targets?