2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[Darth-Piekus]

Anyway something that I wonder and wanted your opinion. Come tomorrow unless nothing changes Max will get the win and Red Bull with 22/23 will equalise the old MP4-4 record from 1988 of 15/16. So does that make RB19 a more successful car just because 22/23 make a 94,5% compared to the 93,8% from the 15/16 or records are not counted like that?

[AR3-GP]

Meh Lando is in no different of a position than red bull in 2020 against the W11. On pure pace they're unlikely to ever get more than P2 if he drives perfectly, but the least you should do is that in order to be the one to capitalise if RB have issues

Lando has not been there in many instances already when he should've. The idea that Verstappen had this sort of problem doesn't hold weight: Lando has been out of karts for more than 7 years already. When max stopped having major incidents (early 2018 onwards) he was in his 4th year out of karts.

Almost 50% of the races since Austria, Lando has come 2nd. That's pretty good, in terms of trying to capitalise upon a mistake. Unfortunately mistakes are few and far between.

True but Qatar was in his hands. There are other drivers who would have won for Mclaren in Qatar. He is able to save himself quite easily in the races but he's giving himself too much work to do on Sunday, and robbed himself of a win which should have already happened in Qatar.

[AR3-GP]

Anyway something that I wonder and wanted your opinion. Come tomorrow unless nothing changes Max will get the win and Red Bull with 22/23 will equalise the old MP4-4 record from 1988 of 15/16. So does that make RB19 a more successful car just because 22/23 make a 94,5% compared to the 93,8% from the 15/16 or records are not counted like that?

The definition of "successful" is arbitrary. One could count win number or one could count winning percentage. It goes without saying that both teams were extremely successful. It's splitting hairs to worry any further.

[hollus]

Anyway something that I wonder and wanted your opinion. Come tomorrow unless nothing changes Max will get the win and Red Bull with 22/23 will equalise the old MP4-4 record from 1988 of 15/16. So does that make RB19 a more successful car just because 22/23 make a 94,5% compared to the 93,8% from the 15/16 or records are not counted like that?

Isn’t it black and white? All races but one is better the more chances there were to miss it, and 95.x% is better than 93.x%.
IF it happens.

[Ben1980]

Meh Lando is in no different of a position than red bull in 2020 against the W11. On pure pace they're unlikely to ever get more than P2 if he drives perfectly, but the least you should do is that in order to be the one to capitalise if RB have issues

Lando has not been there in many instances already when he should've. The idea that Verstappen had this sort of problem doesn't hold weight: Lando has been out of karts for more than 7 years already. When max stopped having major incidents (early 2018 onwards) he was in his 4th year out of karts.

Almost 50% of the races since Austria, Lando has come 2nd. That's pretty good, in terms of trying to capitalise upon a mistake. Unfortunately mistakes are few and far between.

True but Qatar was in his hands. There are other drivers who would have won for Mclaren in Qatar. He is able to save himself quite easily in the races but he's giving himself too much work to do on Sunday, and robbed himself of a win which should have already happened in Qatar.

In his hands? Every q session Max was fastest, from what I see. So, it was no given that pole was a given. And in the race, again Max and Red Bull were faster.

Let's no rewrite history, it would have been very difficult to have won in Qatar even if higher on the grid.

[AR3-GP]

Almost 50% of the races since Austria, Lando has come 2nd. That's pretty good, in terms of trying to capitalise upon a mistake. Unfortunately mistakes are few and far between.

True but Qatar was in his hands. There are other drivers who would have won for Mclaren in Qatar. He is able to save himself quite easily in the races but he's giving himself too much work to do on Sunday, and robbed himself of a win which should have already happened in Qatar.

In his hands? Every q session Max was fastest, from what I see. So, it was no given that pole was a given. And in the race, again Max and Red Bull were faster.

Let's no rewrite history, it would have been very difficult to have won in Qatar even if higher on the grid.

Lando said it himself.

[Darth-Piekus]

It's interesting I must say. From 1988 till today nobody counted percentages. They used to say if there is gonna be a team who will break that record or equalize it. Nobody looked at percentages as they didn't really matter much. I'm not sure the FIA even goes by percentages.

[Ben1980]

True but Qatar was in his hands. There are other drivers who would have won for Mclaren in Qatar. He is able to save himself quite easily in the races but he's giving himself too much work to do on Sunday, and robbed himself of a win which should have already happened in Qatar.

In his hands? Every q session Max was fastest, from what I see. So, it was no given that pole was a given. And in the race, again Max and Red Bull were faster.

Let's no rewrite history, it would have been very difficult to have won in Qatar even if higher on the grid.

Lando said it himself.

Surely, by now, you've learnt to take what Lando says with a massive pinch of salt. Like pretty much all drivers.

[AR3-GP]

In his hands? Every q session Max was fastest, from what I see. So, it was no given that pole was a given. And in the race, again Max and Red Bull were faster.

Let's no rewrite history, it would have been very difficult to have won in Qatar even if higher on the grid.

Lando said it himself.

Surely, by now, you've learnt to take what Lando says with a massive pinch of salt. Like pretty much all drivers.

He is normally pessimistic so when he says the car is good and could have fought for pole and win, then it really does mean something.

[MCLvamos]

Lando said it himself.

Surely, by now, you've learnt to take what Lando says with a massive pinch of salt. Like pretty much all drivers.

He is normally pessimistic which is why you take what he says about the car with a grain of salt. So when he says the car is good and could have fought for pole and win, then it really does mean something.

yes but imo this was another case of him being hard on himself. There COULD have been an opportunity, but Lando will of course say it was on the table to be more self-critical of his errors. The data-crunching from most reputable sources was that McLaren was close but still behind Max. Keep in mind the race was made artificially closer by the conservative strategy Red Bull took as well as the slow stop. With matched strategies and a good pitstop, Max would've finished 8 seconds + away from the McLarens.

[Dafnalina]

Eh, I think some of you are being too harsh on Lando, again. Yes, he completely bottled today and Qatar for the same reason: overdrinving trying to get pole. He's said that's his issue, that he doesn't know when he should settle for 2nd and ends up losing it all.

We've acknowledged that he's made mistakes, and I think a lot of his mistakes from the last two seasons went unnoticed cause Daniel was nowhere. Now that he has a competent teammate and a competitive car, he's been put in a position he's never been in before.

Hopefully it's for the better and he manages to improve. I think not having that win is mentally blocking him at the moment, so I hope he turns his self-criticism into something useful and doesn't just fall down a spiral.

I don't think it's fair to say in the hands of other driver the car would have wins and poles. The McLaren shares the same strenghts as the RB, so you're always competing against the best version possible of Max. Sainz has the only win this year for Ferrari and I don't see anyone saying Leclerc is underperforming. And that wasn't against RB. Same as Las Vegas, a circuit where RB wasn't at its best but Ferrari was.

Recency bias is making you all forget some amazing performances by Lando this year, both in quali and during the races, despite the mistakes. Anyway, I really hope both Lando and Oscar have a good race tomorrow.

[mwillems]

Whether or not he could have won at Qatar.. you are right in that to be the person to capitalise where RB drop back, you have to get your lap in on the Saturday.

I did post a few months back that included the Spa run off that broke his floor in Q1, but when I first started griping about this was halfway through the season and there was already a decent catalogue of Saturdays where he didn't maximise his performance and had made outright mistakes and these mistakes haven't just been when going for P2 but when vying for all sorts of positions on the grid.

The idea that mistakes are only happening in the second half of the season after upgrades is erroneous.

[mwillems]

"Lando Norris has said he is doing a “s*** job” in qualifying, after missing out on what he felt could be a front row in Abu Dhabi."

“Another Saturday I’ve thrown away”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... habi-error

[Mansell89]

I think we might be in good shape tomorrow- when we’re this close in quali we tend to race strongly on Sunday, Silverstone and Losail for sure as examples.

Russell seems to think Merc have the pace to beat us- if he’s right then i actually think he’ll fight for a win because anyone beating Macca tomorrow will need to be unbelievable, which only Max looks.

Wonder if our soft tyres were just dropping off in S3 and that we might end up getting the hard tyres bang in the window tomorrow- that’s what I’m hoping.

[mwillems]

Eh, I think some of you are being too harsh on Lando, again. Yes, he completely bottled today and Qatar for the same reason: overdrinving trying to get pole. He's said that's his issue, that he doesn't know when he should settle for 2nd and ends up losing it all.

We've acknowledged that he's made mistakes, and I think a lot of his mistakes from the last two seasons went unnoticed cause Daniel was nowhere. Now that he has a competent teammate and a competitive car, he's been put in a position he's never been in before.

Hopefully it's for the better and he manages to improve. I think not having that win is mentally blocking him at the moment, so I hope he turns his self-criticism into something useful and doesn't just fall down a spiral.

I don't think it's fair to say in the hands of other driver the car would have wins and poles. The McLaren shares the same strenghts as the RB, so you're always competing against the best version possible of Max. Sainz has the only win this year for Ferrari and I don't see anyone saying Leclerc is underperforming. And that wasn't against RB. Same as Las Vegas, a circuit where RB wasn't at its best but Ferrari was.

Recency bias is making you all forget some amazing performances by Lando this year, both in quali and during the races, despite the mistakes. Anyway, I really hope both Lando and Oscar have a good race tomorrow.

It's not recent, it's all season starting with Jeddah where he hits the wall and exits at Q1.

He will come good I'm sure, and for sure he has the good will of all Mclaren fans that he does and goes on to win his first championship. Hopefully a winter reset will give him the chance to work on it and come back stronger next year.