2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[Dafnalina]

Eh, I think some of you are being too harsh on Lando, again. Yes, he completely bottled today and Qatar for the same reason: overdrinving trying to get pole. He's said that's his issue, that he doesn't know when he should settle for 2nd and ends up losing it all.

We've acknowledged that he's made mistakes, and I think a lot of his mistakes from the last two seasons went unnoticed cause Daniel was nowhere. Now that he has a competent teammate and a competitive car, he's been put in a position he's never been in before.

Hopefully it's for the better and he manages to improve. I think not having that win is mentally blocking him at the moment, so I hope he turns his self-criticism into something useful and doesn't just fall down a spiral.

I don't think it's fair to say in the hands of other driver the car would have wins and poles. The McLaren shares the same strenghts as the RB, so you're always competing against the best version possible of Max. Sainz has the only win this year for Ferrari and I don't see anyone saying Leclerc is underperforming. And that wasn't against RB. Same as Las Vegas, a circuit where RB wasn't at its best but Ferrari was.

Recency bias is making you all forget some amazing performances by Lando this year, both in quali and during the races, despite the mistakes. Anyway, I really hope both Lando and Oscar have a good race tomorrow.

It's not recent, it's all season starting with Jeddah where he hits the wall and exits at Q1.

He will come good I'm sure, and for sure he has the good will of all Mclaren fans that he does and goes on to win his first championship. Hopefully a winter reset will give him the chance to work on it and come back stronger next year.

No, I agree he's been making mistakes all season, the kind of mistakes that went unnoticed the past few years. Just people saying other drivers would've had wins and poles in the car by now. That, I don't agree with.

[djos]

I watched both driver interviews after qualifying, and both mentioned struggling with mistakes.

Let’s be honest, the McLarens have had major handling issues for years when being driven on the limit. It’s why Daniel never got to the point he could trust the car at 10/10ths.

Yes the car has improved a lot, but until McLaren figure out how to remove the final issues, they’ll never be able to challenge RedBull for poles and wins consistently.

I’m hopeful that with the new hires, they can resolve the issues quickly next year.

And before anyone tries to claim I’m FoS, Lando himself has said those issues haven’t been fixed by the improved aero platform.

[mwillems]

Eh, I think some of you are being too harsh on Lando, again. Yes, he completely bottled today and Qatar for the same reason: overdrinving trying to get pole. He's said that's his issue, that he doesn't know when he should settle for 2nd and ends up losing it all.

We've acknowledged that he's made mistakes, and I think a lot of his mistakes from the last two seasons went unnoticed cause Daniel was nowhere. Now that he has a competent teammate and a competitive car, he's been put in a position he's never been in before.

Hopefully it's for the better and he manages to improve. I think not having that win is mentally blocking him at the moment, so I hope he turns his self-criticism into something useful and doesn't just fall down a spiral.

I don't think it's fair to say in the hands of other driver the car would have wins and poles. The McLaren shares the same strenghts as the RB, so you're always competing against the best version possible of Max. Sainz has the only win this year for Ferrari and I don't see anyone saying Leclerc is underperforming. And that wasn't against RB. Same as Las Vegas, a circuit where RB wasn't at its best but Ferrari was.

Recency bias is making you all forget some amazing performances by Lando this year, both in quali and during the races, despite the mistakes. Anyway, I really hope both Lando and Oscar have a good race tomorrow.

It's not recent, it's all season starting with Jeddah where he hits the wall and exits at Q1.

He will come good I'm sure, and for sure he has the good will of all Mclaren fans that he does and goes on to win his first championship. Hopefully a winter reset will give him the chance to work on it and come back stronger next year.

No, I agree he's been making mistakes all season, the kind of mistakes that went unnoticed the past few years. Just people saying other drivers would've had wins and poles in the car by now. That, I don't agree with.

I think to say that he hasn't been putting himself in the opportunity to capitalise is true. Particularly at Qatar. It obviously wasn't a guarantee had he qualified better and I don't think that is being said, just that he did have a chance and blew it.

[mwillems]

I watched both driver interviews after qualifying, and both mentioned struggling with mistakes.

Let’s be honest, the McLarens have had major handling issues for years when being driven on the limit. It’s why Daniel never got to the point he could trust the car at 10/10ths.

Yes the car has improved a lot, but until McLaren figure out how to remove the final issues, they’ll never be able to challenge RedBull for poles and wins consistently.

I’m hopeful that with the new hires, they can resolve the issues quickly next year.

And before anyone tries to claim I’m FoS, Lando himself has said those issues haven’t been fixed by the improved aero platform.

But when Daniel was getting a hard time it was almost universal within here that you can't blame the car, Lando could do it so why not DR etc... nothing has changed and the same applies to Lando. He is expected to drive it and drive it well. Not trying to be harsh, but whilst I support the guy and want him to do well, he's an elite sportsman paid £20m a year and the third highest paid F1 driver and I do want him to perform better on a Saturday to help the team I love to improve.

[djos]

I watched both driver interviews after qualifying, and both mentioned struggling with mistakes.

Let’s be honest, the McLarens have had major handling issues for years when being driven on the limit. It’s why Daniel never got to the point he could trust the car at 10/10ths.

Yes the car has improved a lot, but until McLaren figure out how to remove the final issues, they’ll never be able to challenge RedBull for poles and wins consistently.

I’m hopeful that with the new hires, they can resolve the issues quickly next year.

And before anyone tries to claim I’m FoS, Lando himself has said those issues haven’t been fixed by the improved aero platform.

But when Daniel was getting a hard time it was almost universal within here that you can't blame the car, Lando could do it so why not DR etc... nothing has changed and the same applies to Lando. He is expected to drive it and drive it well.

Driving at the limit requires 100% confidence the car will behave in a predictable way.

If the car isn’t predictable on the limit, mistakes will occur. Simple logic. These things aren’t simple overnight fixes.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... ren-issues

“I think days like today prove that we’re not miles away on certain things. It’s just some characteristics and handling that I would still say we’ve had as an inherent issue over the last five years that we definitely still struggle with.

This was in July after the car started getting fast.

if we really can tackle those bigger problems, which are more fundamental and not just by adding load, then I’m confident we can have a much more competitive car from race one to race 24 next year.”

[mwillems]

I watched both driver interviews after qualifying, and both mentioned struggling with mistakes.

Let’s be honest, the McLarens have had major handling issues for years when being driven on the limit. It’s why Daniel never got to the point he could trust the car at 10/10ths.

Yes the car has improved a lot, but until McLaren figure out how to remove the final issues, they’ll never be able to challenge RedBull for poles and wins consistently.

I’m hopeful that with the new hires, they can resolve the issues quickly next year.

And before anyone tries to claim I’m FoS, Lando himself has said those issues haven’t been fixed by the improved aero platform.

But when Daniel was getting a hard time it was almost universal within here that you can't blame the car, Lando could do it so why not DR etc... nothing has changed and the same applies to Lando. He is expected to drive it and drive it well.

Driving at the limit requires 100% confidence the car will behave in a predictable way.

If the car isn’t predictable on the limit, mistakes will occur. Simple logic. These things aren’t simple overnight fixes.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... ren-issues

“I think days like today prove that we’re not miles away on certain things. It’s just some characteristics and handling that I would still say we’ve had as an inherent issue over the last five years that we definitely still struggle with.

It's better than most other cars, which doesn't tally with the frequency of mistakes from Lando, I'm sorry to say.

[djos]

But when Daniel was getting a hard time it was almost universal within here that you can't blame the car, Lando could do it so why not DR etc... nothing has changed and the same applies to Lando. He is expected to drive it and drive it well.

Driving at the limit requires 100% confidence the car will behave in a predictable way.

If the car isn’t predictable on the limit, mistakes will occur. Simple logic. These things aren’t simple overnight fixes.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... ren-issues

“I think days like today prove that we’re not miles away on certain things. It’s just some characteristics and handling that I would still say we’ve had as an inherent issue over the last five years that we definitely still struggle with.

It's better than most other cars, which doesn't tally with the frequency of mistakes from Lando, I'm sorry to say.

Honestly, I think Lando is being forced to push harder by Oscar than he was with Daniel, simply because Oscar is much closer to him on pace.

But you watch the interview, Oscar complains he’s still making mistakes. If the car was more predictable, both drivers would make less mistakes.

Think about it logically, mistakes happen due to the driver expecting result B from action A, but they get result C instead.

[mwillems]

Driving at the limit requires 100% confidence the car will behave in a predictable way.

If the car isn’t predictable on the limit, mistakes will occur. Simple logic. These things aren’t simple overnight fixes.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lando-nor ... ren-issues

It's better than most other cars, which doesn't tally with the frequency of mistakes from Lando, I'm sorry to say.

Honestly, I think Lando is being forced to push harder by Oscar than he was with Daniel, simply because Oscar is much closer to him on pace.

But you watch the interview, Oscar complains he’s still making mistakes. If the car was more predictable, both drivers would make less mistakes.

Think about it logically, mistakes happen due to the driver expecting result B from action A, but they get result C instead.

I get it, and I'm sure it is part of it but I just don't think it is the car. Not from the frequency or from watching the mistakes where he's done several laps before and it was fine and then you can see he has just bitten off too much.

Brazil, whilst he was never going to get a great Qualy lap in due to the weather, is a great example of where he out braked himself massively and lost time before the weather had affected his aero and then was in two minds whether to set a lap at all..

As for being pushed... I recall talking about this mid season before Oscar had started to get on and challenge Lando more in Qualy, so I just think it is down to his performance over the year.


Aaaaaaaanyway.... I'm ducking out of this one now, to be fair I think everyone knows where everyone else stands, so might be worth leaving this till next year and enjoying the final GP of the season and cheering on the team

[FittingMechanics]

Anyway something that I wonder and wanted your opinion. Come tomorrow unless nothing changes Max will get the win and Red Bull with 22/23 will equalise the old MP4-4 record from 1988 of 15/16. So does that make RB19 a more successful car just because 22/23 make a 94,5% compared to the 93,8% from the 15/16 or records are not counted like that?

MP4-4 was more dominant pace wise and would have got a perfect season without a backmarker crashing into it.

Red Bull did have Singapore and in some races weren't dominant that much but they did have enough.

Still amazing feat to build a car this strong in an age of cost cap, similar engines and many great teams.

[mwillems]

Oscar didn't get a penalty and the report suggests that Gasly defended Oscar at the hearing, saying he wasn't impeded at all.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/10085 ... rre-gasly/

[organic]

None of the fast cars in the current formula seem to have brilliant handling.

Fernando at the beginning of the year with their grey-area wings had good characteristics and now only Max at RB seems to be content with the handling of the car and we don't know how much instability he's happy to deal with - his teammates have remarked that his ability to deal with instability is very high

I think the sensitivity of the current cars being so high makes it very easy for drivers to make errors. Compared to pre-2022 I think the cars are significantly harder to drive and that is true for all teams not just McLaren

[bauc]

My crazy race prediction for today....

VER and LEC crash at the start, Lando gets his first win ))))))))

P.S.

I know .... I know... but you cant stop man from dreaming

[Farnborough]

Anyway something that I wonder and wanted your opinion. Come tomorrow unless nothing changes Max will get the win and Red Bull with 22/23 will equalise the old MP4-4 record from 1988 of 15/16. So does that make RB19 a more successful car just because 22/23 make a 94,5% compared to the 93,8% from the 15/16 or records are not counted like that?

MP4-4 was more dominant pace wise and would have got a perfect season without a backmarker crashing into it.

Red Bull did have Singapore and in some races weren't dominant that much but they did have enough.

Still amazing feat to build a car this strong in an age of cost cap, similar engines and many great teams.

It's interesting because of the position held by that MP 4/4 in the overall season success it had. Extraordinarily dominant though.....3 sec per lap faster in qualli at Imola than the second chassis in that session (lotus, powered by the same engine) and with a fastest race lap that was faster than lotus qualifying pace !! Quite a technical achievement from McL then.

Coincidental parallel to this RB 19..... Honda V6 turbo to v-tight fuel rashion (obviously a completely different design criteria to current) installed in class leading suspension and aero concept...driven by one of the fastest driver of the era with an acute application to that task in maximising that speed.

Both of quite a era defining achievement with these aspect all coming into a very resolved performance against their opposition.

[billamend]

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/11/26/mc ... ment-2026/

[Seerix]

Let's finish the season with a good result.