2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Fakepivot]

What's the verdict here on Ferrari splitting with Binotto as TP Good move? Bad move? Irrelevant? Details and arguments please

If Binotto would not be fired in 2022, he would be now, how can he oversee a car that was worse than f-75 ? it made no big improvements. Tyre wear was still a thing at start. on top that let's not forget how he allowed Sainz camp to dictate how car should favor Sainz.. if Binotto was still there 100% they would have lost Leclerc to other team and forget getting wcc and wdc for another 5 to 10 years..

I quite like Fred, he accepts if they made mistakes, plus Charles has lot of confidence in him, I am excited to see how Fred and Charles partnership will turn out.

[FDD]

What's the verdict here on Ferrari splitting with Binotto as TP Good move? Bad move? Irrelevant? Details and arguments please

Good move.
Most probably he does not have manager/political skills for TP.

[codetower]

What's the verdict here on Ferrari splitting with Binotto as TP Good move? Bad move? Irrelevant? Details and arguments please

Personally, at the end of the day I think it was the right decision. I'm not sure if Fred is the right man to make us champions, but then again, it takes a lot more than one person. I think the most important trait of a great leader is getting the right people in the right positions.

I was always a fan of Binotto, and I really wanted him to succeed. I liked him as a person but I think his biggest weakness, and the thing that ultimately led to his exit, is that he tried too hard to make everyone happy. This is what I believe led him to overlook the weaknesses, and to ignore the strengths of the team. He kept the weak people around too long, and didn't support the strong ones enough. For now, Fred seems detached enough where he will make the right decisions, remove the weak links, and focus on the strong ones, and bring in better talent. Hopefully Ferrari will continue to improve like this.

As far as Binotto, well, under his leadership there were a lot of lows, but there were also some good. He did bring us some exciting races, some fun battles between Lec and Ver, a few wins (Monza was surreal), the engine is not bad, and the F1-75 was by far the best looking car on the grid. So it wasn't all bad. I do wish him luck wherever he ends up.

[scuderiabrandon]

Binotto didn't understand the difference between 'no blame culture' and accountability. That alone should tell you he can't manage a team.

[SoulPancake13]

What's the verdict here on Ferrari splitting with Binotto as TP Good move? Bad move? Irrelevant? Details and arguments please

I think as of now, I believe splitting was the right choice. 2020, 2021, and then 2023 were just lost seasons because of the fuel flow debacle in 2019 which show, in my opinion, a lack of political savvy which is needed as the TP of the biggest F1 team in history, and a huge mistake by the technical team which he led. We never saw an in season development plan work as well as the one Vasseur led this season with Cardille. He never took accountability for the operational errors. He blamed no one, which led to the blame being placed fully on the drivers. It was also clear towards the end of his time that he was closer to Sainz and preferred his development feedback which drove the understeery boat that was the launch SF23. A complete mismanagement of drivers meant he had to go, especially with Charles's renewal coming up the season after...

[trinidefender]

What's the verdict here on Ferrari splitting with Binotto as TP Good move? Bad move? Irrelevant? Details and arguments please

If Binotto would not be fired in 2022, he would be now, how can he oversee a car that was worse than f-75 ? it made no big improvements. Tyre wear was still a thing at start. on top that let's not forget how he allowed Sainz camp to dictate how car should favor Sainz.. if Binotto was still there 100% they would have lost Leclerc to other team and forget getting wcc and wdc for another 5 to 10 years..

I quite like Fred, he accepts if they made mistakes, plus Charles has lot of confidence in him, I am excited to see how Fred and Charles partnership will turn out.

Sainz complain many times about the handling of the car. I think you’re quite mistaken if you believe that Ferrari built the car to favour Sainz. Also from your writing it seems that you heavily favour Leclerc. May I suggest you don’t underestimate Sainz so much. He might not have the complete raw speed as Leclerc in qualifying but on race pace he's there or thereabouts, he also definitely has a smarter racing brain.

[Fakepivot]

yes both sainz and charles complained about the unpredictable nature of the car, but sainz also mentioned how he was comfortable with the car maybe during Monza if i recall correctly. sure, it's not as black and white as understeer or oversteer, and sainz is a good driver. but we have to ask would Binotto change the car concept mid-season and improve the car and understanding of tyre? i have high doubt of that. in the last race most pundits predicted norris or Russel to over take Charles very easily again saying Ferrari is't good in race place etc but charles held on quite easily. he even manages to stay close to max in medium stint.. before the start of the season the Tyre would have fallen off much earlier, so they have definitely made progress in understanding the car and Japan update which Charles mentioned several times helped him get back his preference.

[Vanja #66]

Thank you all for detailed replys so far, I'm hoping we'll have more of them and see some different points of view .

I agree with the general opinion, unfortunately many unpleasant truths surfaced in the first half of the season, all of which were almost expected after all the blunders of last year. We can't know yet if Vasseur is building the right team or not yet, but it became quite clear Binotto's team wasn't the right team - not least with the poor performance and undrivable nature of launch spec SF-23.

[Xyz22]

What's the verdict here on Ferrari splitting with Binotto as TP Good move? Bad move? Irrelevant? Details and arguments please

If Binotto would not be fired in 2022, he would be now, how can he oversee a car that was worse than f-75 ? it made no big improvements. Tyre wear was still a thing at start. on top that let's not forget how he allowed Sainz camp to dictate how car should favor Sainz.. if Binotto was still there 100% they would have lost Leclerc to other team and forget getting wcc and wdc for another 5 to 10 years..

I quite like Fred, he accepts if they made mistakes, plus Charles has lot of confidence in him, I am excited to see how Fred and Charles partnership will turn out.

Sainz complain many times about the handling of the car. I think you’re quite mistaken if you believe that Ferrari built the car to favour Sainz. Also from your writing it seems that you heavily favour Leclerc. May I suggest you don’t underestimate Sainz so much. He might not have the complete raw speed as Leclerc in qualifying but on race pace he's there or thereabouts, he also definitely has a smarter racing brain.

Sorry but this narrative is false and i don't understand why it has become a reality in the first place.
Leclerc's advantage over Sainz, from 2021 to 2023, has been higher in race trim than quali trim on average.

Having said that Leclerc had way more issues than Sainz with the SF 23 for two main reasons:

- The car is very limited on the front end. Formu1a.uno reported recently that the SF 23 is one of the car which spend the least amount of time in a corner (it was the case even in Abu Dhabi)
- The car would become extremely unpredictable with an oversteery balance, which is usual what Leclerc goes for

Long story short the SF 23 was pretty much the "Anti Leclerc" definitive car Now i don't know if they did it on purpose (i doubt it), but yeah it's clearly the car Leclerc hates the most.

The floor introduced in Suzuka allowed Leclerc to use his "usual" balance of choice without making the car unpredictable as before. He said that he helped him a bit in quali, but a lot in the race.




The performance in Abu Dhabi really surprised me. The first stint was absolutely phenomenal both in terms of pace and tyre management. Unfortunately, our performance decreased massively on the hard compound exactly like in Mexico.
There is no way the original SF 23 would have been able to keep up with the RB 19 even in the first stint in a track like Abu Dhabi.

[TFSA]

Binotto didn't understand the difference between 'no blame culture' and accountability. That alone should tell you he can't manage a team.

Because there are no difference.

Accountability
"required or expected to justify actions or decisions; responsible."

blame
"feel or declare that (someone or something) is responsible for a fault or wrong."
"responsibility for a fault or wrong."

If you're holding someone accountable for something, you're essentially blaming them.

[AR3-GP]

I think he's saying that Binotto took no blame culture too literally.

Mike Elliot allegedly came up with the idea to switch places with James Allison. That is both accountability and no blame culture.

[Elite]

I think he's saying that Binotto took no blame culture too literally.

Mike Elliot allegedly came up with the idea to switch places with James Allison. That is both accountability and no blame culture.

Pah. No way Elliot instigated that in a million years.

[TFSA]

I think he's saying that Binotto took no blame culture too literally.

Mike Elliot allegedly came up with the idea to switch places with James Allison. That is both accountability and no blame culture.

...or it's plain and simple damage control. Whether it was damage control for the team and/or Elliots own career, I'll leave for you to decide

[scuderiabrandon]

Binotto didn't understand the difference between 'no blame culture' and accountability. That alone should tell you he can't manage a team.

Because there are no difference.

Accountability
"required or expected to justify actions or decisions; responsible."

blame
"feel or declare that (someone or something) is responsible for a fault or wrong."
"responsibility for a fault or wrong."

If you're holding someone accountable for something, you're essentially blaming them.

accountability is accepting responsibility.

Example 1

Vasseur accepts that they've done something wrong, the teams is repsonsibile for fixing this issue next time round.

Example 2

Binotto refuses to take accountability, he insists they did no wrong. No-blame.

His iconic quote from Silverstone:

"Who said he would've won the race" amazing.

[Andres125sx]

If Binotto would not be fired in 2022, he would be now, how can he oversee a car that was worse than f-75 ? it made no big improvements. Tyre wear was still a thing at start. on top that let's not forget how he allowed Sainz camp to dictate how car should favor Sainz.. if Binotto was still there 100% they would have lost Leclerc to other team and forget getting wcc and wdc for another 5 to 10 years..

I quite like Fred, he accepts if they made mistakes, plus Charles has lot of confidence in him, I am excited to see how Fred and Charles partnership will turn out.

Sainz complain many times about the handling of the car. I think you’re quite mistaken if you believe that Ferrari built the car to favour Sainz. Also from your writing it seems that you heavily favour Leclerc. May I suggest you don’t underestimate Sainz so much. He might not have the complete raw speed as Leclerc in qualifying but on race pace he's there or thereabouts, he also definitely has a smarter racing brain.

Sorry but this narrative is false and i don't understand why it has become a reality in the first place.
Leclerc's advantage over Sainz, from 2021 to 2023, has been higher in race trim than quali trim on average.

Having said that Leclerc had way more issues than Sainz with the SF 23 for two main reasons:

- The car is very limited on the front end. Formu1a.uno reported recently that the SF 23 was one of the car which spend the least amount of time in a corner (it was the case even in Abu Dhabi)
- The car would become extremely unpredictable with an oversteery balance, which is usual what Leclerc goes for

Long story short the SF 23 was pretty much the "Anti Leclerc" definitive car Now i don't know if they did it on purpose (i doubt it), but yeah it's clearly the car Leclerc hates the most.

Maybe, but you´re assuming a car wich Leclerc don´t like will be good for Sainz, and that´s a wrong assumption.

The car can be "undriveable" for both drivers. This is Ferrari, keep that in mind, they can make a car wich do not suit any of their drivers



About Binotto-Vasseur... With Binotto Ferrari was 2nd (only comparing this ruleset), scoring 73% of RBR points. With Vasseur Ferrari was 3rd, scoring 47% of RBR points.

Obviously points and results are not everything, but they´re a very important factor to consider, and difference was huge, so someone should point this out

Anycase, I think TP is not the weak point at Ferrari, probably could be better, but apart from car perfomance itself, IMHO strategy department is by far the weakest link at Ferrari with several decisions wich were completely amateurish, for both drivers