Toto Wolff accused of leaking/receiving confidential information

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Wouter
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Re: Toto Wolff accused of leaking/receiving confidential information

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organic wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 13:16
Wouter wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 13:12
organic wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 12:24
Wow the CEO of FOM has lots of pictures with a team principal with one of the top teams and representative of one of the largest OEMs in the world :mrgreen: that's it it's made up my mind
.
If I understand you correctly (maybe I am wrong), you are okay with Domenicali spending a lot of time with Toto in his spare time
and being his friend and do a lot of things together? I find that a conflict of interest behind the scenes.
I think Susie is innocent.
.
A few photos are hardly evidence of anything, nor is this sort of photo exclusive to Toto... newey frequently goes out to dinners with Zak Brown, but we don't assume that he's behind their resurgence in 2023..
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There are more photo's where Domenicali is in his spare time on Toto's yacht. That is NOT work related. They are friends.
And photo's where they are together on a private party drinking wine and have fun, also not work related.
The Power of Dreams!

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Wouter
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Re: Toto Wolff accused of leaking/receiving confidential information

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Luscion wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 14:24
Wouter wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 10:53
It's easy to suspect Susie of a conflict of interest, after all, she's married to Toto, but what about Domenicali? I don't think it's healthy that Toto has such a close friendship with the boss of F1. Now that's a conflict of interest! Let them look at that first.

Would Susie really risk her own career, which is so incredibly important to her, for Toto?! I don't think so.

https://www.f1news.live/content/images/ ... 197_n.webp

https://www.grandprix247.com/wp-content ... iatore.jpg

https://i.redd.it/067ryz6ivmza1.jpg

Last year in Spa.

https://cdn.imago-images.com/bild/sp/1014104595/m.jpg

Monaco

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/149376 ... _6j5CPIRA=
.
There's a bunch of photos with domenicali hanging out with multiple team principles like Zak and Lawrence stroll, hell, he's even in one of those pics and Stefano was at stroll's daughter's wedding
.
Lawrence Stroll and Domenicali are also friends. That's why he was invited on her wedding.

The photo's with other team principles are all work related NOT private!
The Power of Dreams!

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organic
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Re: Toto Wolff accused of leaking/receiving confidential information

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Edit: some of this may be outdated as AMuS have made amendments to the original article

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... rmationen/

AMuS have now reported on this, and it seems it is actually more about the budget cap. They allege, through info confirmed to them by unnamed source, that Toto had confidential information about budget cap audits that he let slip. IMO that could be seen as something quite major as it seems perhaps he had knowledge of how other teams were spending within the cap!

A participant in the meeting in question confirmed to Auto Motor und Sport that such an incident had actually occurred. Accordingly, Wolff is said to have mentioned figures that could come from the audits for the budget cap investigations.
It said that Toto Wolff had let slip information in a meeting of the Formula 1 Commission that was actually subject to confidentiality and was not available through regular channels.
Normally, none of the teams are allowed to know exactly how the competition is doing business. That's why the auditors' findings are strictly confidential.
In the meeting there was allegedly a brief argument between Toto Wolff and Christian Horner. The Red Bull team boss is said to have asked his Mercedes colleague where the information mentioned came from. It is said that the discussion did not escalate greatly.
Last edited by organic on 06 Dec 2023, 16:41, edited 6 times in total.

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Wouter
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Re: Toto Wolff accused of leaking/receiving confidential information

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organic wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 15:11
Amus have reported on this saying that there was a conflict between Horner and Toto over some information and where he had acquired it. So this part of the original report is likely to be true as AMuS do not report rubbish, and if anything they lean slightly pro-Mercedes
---------------------------------------------
.
Thanks. A link would be nice. I like to read the original German version. (because my German is better than my English :) . )
The Power of Dreams!

RonMexico
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Re: Toto Wolff accused of leaking/receiving confidential information

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Wouter
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Re: Toto Wolff accused of leaking/receiving confidential information

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RonMexico wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 15:29
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2 ... p-upgrade/
Was this ever explained?
.
No, it wasn't. You have to pay if you want to read the article, so here are some quotes:


Christian Horner demands answers over Mercedes' Canadian GP upgrade

Red Bull chief questions how rivals were able to fit a second floor stay so quickly after FIA's intervention over porpoising

Christian Horner is demanding urgent answers for how Mercedes were able to fit a second floor stay to their car so quickly ahead of the Canadian Grand Prix, questioning whether the world champions had advance knowledge of the FIA technical directive designed to help teams overcome bouncing problems with their cars.

Mercedes were the only team to introduce an additional stay – a measure designed to help stiffen the lightweight floor, and specifically permitted in the wake of the directive – trialling the solution on George Russell’s car in free practice. They ultimately decided against using it in the race but were still far more competitive, with Lewis Hamilton going from describing his car as “undriveable” last Friday to finishing third in Montreal 48 hours later.

“What was particularly disappointing was the second stay,” said Horner, Red Bull’s team principal. “It has to be discussed in a technical forum, and that is overtly biased to sorting one team’s problems out – the only team who turned up here with it, even in advance of the technical directive. So work that one out.”

Horner’s comments mark the latest escalation of a furious row over Mercedes’ struggles with bouncing and porpoising. In a heated meeting in Canada, Horner and Ferrari’s Mattia Binotto allegedly put it to Toto Wolff that he was over-exaggerating the issues in an effort to force an FIA intervention. That prompted a savage rebuke from Wolff, who claimed his opposite numbers were not paying sufficient attention to driver safety and instead resorting to “Chinese whispers” and “pitiful” political games. He later apologised to Horner on the Montreal grid.

But Horner remains adamant that Mercedes’ ordeal with their cars is less about safety than a failure to interpret the revised rules this season as effectively as Red Bull. “The issue with Mercedes is more severe, or certainly it has been prior to Canada, than with any other car. That surely is down to the team. It’s within their control to deal with that, if it’s not affecting others.

“I know it was said other drivers have been complaining. Our drivers have never complained, ever, about porpoising. They’ve said certain circuits could do with tidying up, perhaps resurfacing in places. But we haven’t had an issue with bouncing. The problem is that Mercedes are running their car so stiff.”

There is also worry among Mercedes’ rivals about Shaila-Ann Rao, who worked for 3½ years as general counsel and special adviser to Wolff, assuming a role as the FIA’s interim secretary-general this month. Rao oversaw last week’s technical directive to the teams. Binotto has described her move from Mercedes to the top of the sport’s regulator as “certainly a concern”.

Binotto added: “It’s down to them to make sure there will be no conflicts of interest at all, to behave properly.” Wolff, for his part, has endorsed Rao’s credentials for the job, arguing: “She’s a lawyer and she is one about governance and transparency. This is what she will be trying to implement and that is good news.”

Horner is especially aggrieved at the timing of the FIA’s decision to step in, with its directive issued just as many members of the paddock, including him, were in the air en route to Montreal. “There is a process for these things to be introduced,” he lamented. “You can’t just suddenly change technical regulations halfway through a season.”
The Power of Dreams!

mcdenife
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Re: Toto Wolff accused of leaking/receiving confidential information

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Wouter wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 14:47
Luscion wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 14:24
Wouter wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 10:53
It's easy to suspect Susie of a conflict of interest, after all, she's married to Toto, but what about Domenicali? I don't think it's healthy that Toto has such a close friendship with the boss of F1. Now that's a conflict of interest! Let them look at that first.

Would Susie really risk her own career, which is so incredibly important to her, for Toto?! I don't think so.

https://www.f1news.live/content/images/ ... 197_n.webp

https://www.grandprix247.com/wp-content ... iatore.jpg

https://i.redd.it/067ryz6ivmza1.jpg

Last year in Spa.

https://cdn.imago-images.com/bild/sp/1014104595/m.jpg

Monaco

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/149376 ... _6j5CPIRA=
.
There's a bunch of photos with domenicali hanging out with multiple team principles like Zak and Lawrence stroll, hell, he's even in one of those pics and Stefano was at stroll's daughter's wedding
.
Lawrence Stroll and Domenicali are also friends. That's why he was invited on her wedding.

The photo's with other team principles are all work related NOT private!
So are you saying, Stroll snr having a personal relationship with Domenicali is not a conflict of interest or that Any team principal with a personal relationship with Domenicali constitutes a conflict of interest?
Long experience has taught me this about the status of mankind with regards to matters requiring thought. The less people know and understand about them, the more positively they attempt to argue concerning them; while on the other hand, to know and understand a multitude of things renders men cautious in passing judgement upon anything new. - Galileo..

The noblest of dogs is the hot dog. It feeds the hand that bites it.

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Wouter
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Re: Toto Wolff accused of leaking/receiving confidential information

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mcdenife wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 15:50
Wouter wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 14:47
Luscion wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 14:24
There's a bunch of photos with domenicali hanging out with multiple team principles like Zak and Lawrence stroll, hell, he's even in one of those pics and Stefano was at stroll's daughter's wedding
.
Lawrence Stroll and Domenicali are also friends. That's why he was invited on her wedding.

The photo's with other team principles are all work related NOT private!
.
So are you saying, Stroll snr having a personal relationship with Domenicali is not a conflict of interest or that Any team principal with a personal relationship with Domenicali constitutes a conflict of interest?
.
No, that is not what I am saying. Where do you read that?
Lawrence Stroll having a personal relationship with Domenicali is also a conflict of interest.
Non of the other teampricipals are personel friends of Domenicali.
The Power of Dreams!

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FW17
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Re: Toto Wolff accused of leaking/receiving confidential information

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mcdenife wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 15:50
Wouter wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 14:47
Luscion wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 14:24

.
There's a bunch of photos with domenicali hanging out with multiple team principles like Zak and Lawrence stroll, hell, he's even in one of those pics and Stefano was at stroll's daughter's wedding
.
Lawrence Stroll and Domenicali are also friends. That's why he was invited on her wedding.

The photo's with other team principles are all work related NOT private!
So are you saying, Stroll snr having a personal relationship with Domenicali is not a conflict of interest or that Any team principal with a personal relationship with Domenicali constitutes a conflict of interest?
Stroll snr having a friendship is alright. They can discuss F1 business all they want. But..
> if Stroll Jr is given a job at FOG to be Domenicalli's assistant, it is a conflict that should alarm the other 9 team owners.
> If Stroll and Domenicalli start another business together while Dominicalli holding FOG office, it is a conflict

This was a case when Bernie and Flavio were business partners, FIA were pals with them so it was alright.

Luscion
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Re: Toto Wolff accused of leaking/receiving confidential information

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from AMuS - https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... rmationen/
business magazine "Business F1". It stated that Toto Wolff had allegedly leaked information in a meeting with other team bosses that was actually subject to confidentiality.

It is extremely unusual for the FIA to initiate proceedings directly after such a single report. One must therefore ask oneself whether a political agenda is not being pursued here. It is also not entirely clear what exactly the meeting was at which the allegedly questionable statements were made.

At the last meeting of the F1 Commission, there was a small exchange of words between Toto Wolff and Red Bull team boss Christian Horner, which, according to eyewitnesses, centred on budget cap figures. However, this was apparently not the bone of contention, as we had incorrectly suggested in an earlier version of this report.

One team boss told auto motor und sport that he and his colleagues had no problems or complaints about Toto Wolff's statements in recent meetings. That is why there is also great surprise here about the sudden FIA move

[...]

Some reports have suggested that it may be internal figures from the balance sheet audits of the racing teams that are suspected of having been passed on. However, these audits, which are necessary to monitor the budget cap, are carried out by the FIA itself and not by the Formula 1 organisation.

mcdenife
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Re: Toto Wolff accused of leaking/receiving confidential information

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Wouter wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 16:01
mcdenife wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 15:50
Wouter wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 14:47

.
Lawrence Stroll and Domenicali are also friends. That's why he was invited on her wedding.

The photo's with other team principles are all work related NOT private!
.
So are you saying, Stroll snr having a personal relationship with Domenicali is not a conflict of interest or that Any team principal with a personal relationship with Domenicali constitutes a conflict of interest?
.
No, that is not what I am saying. Where do you read that?
Lawrence Stroll having a personal relationship with Domenicali is also a conflict of interest.
Non of the other teampricipals are personel friends of Domenicali.
So from photos of Domenicali on Toto's boat and/or at Stroll's daughter's wedding, they are personal Friends (note I said personal relationship not personal Friends)? All the team principals, other F1 names, personalities socialize with each other outside of F1...including Toto and Horner. Because you come across a photo of Horner at Toto's son's wedding or birthday or other event (or LH on Max's plane even) does not make them friends let alone close friends, but it does mean they have a personal relationship outside of F1 and the same goes for other personalites within F1 and indeed in other spheres of life outside of F1. If you really tried I am sure you can find photos of any number of drivers at events organised by suppossedly bitter rivals/drivers/Team principals or other F1 personalities, it doesnt make them friends.
Putting all this to one side, how on earth would you know none of the team principal are 'personal friends' of Domenicali; They told you this? Or you just concluded; "if I have not seen any photo suggesting otherwise the must not have a relationship outside of F1 with Domenicali"?
Long experience has taught me this about the status of mankind with regards to matters requiring thought. The less people know and understand about them, the more positively they attempt to argue concerning them; while on the other hand, to know and understand a multitude of things renders men cautious in passing judgement upon anything new. - Galileo..

The noblest of dogs is the hot dog. It feeds the hand that bites it.

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ValeVida46
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Re: Toto Wolff accused of leaking/receiving confidential information

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organic wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 15:11
Edit: some of this may be outdated as AMuS have made amendments to the original article

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... rmationen/

AMuS have now reported on this, and it seems it is actually more about the budget cap. They allege, through info confirmed to them by unnamed source, that Toto had confidential information about budget cap audits that he let slip. IMO that could be seen as something quite major as it seems perhaps he had knowledge of how other teams were spending within the cap!

A participant in the meeting in question confirmed to Auto Motor und Sport that such an incident had actually occurred. Accordingly, Wolff is said to have mentioned figures that could come from the audits for the budget cap investigations.
It said that Toto Wolff had let slip information in a meeting of the Formula 1 Commission that was actually subject to confidentiality and was not available through regular channels.
Normally, none of the teams are allowed to know exactly how the competition is doing business. That's why the auditors' findings are strictly confidential.
In the meeting there was allegedly a brief argument between Toto Wolff and Christian Horner. The Red Bull team boss is said to have asked his Mercedes colleague where the information mentioned came from. It is said that the discussion did not escalate greatly.
Might be possible Red Bull(Horner) complained that Toto had information that Red Bull breached the budget cap.
I doubt that, I still think it's MBS shenanigans.

This mess being brought up by the FIA just brings back the spectre of budget caps.
If Wolff does have information of Red Bull budgetry wrongdoing, it would be wrong.
Said it before and I'll say it again, this should be OPEN to ALL for scrutiny. Right now we can't even see where the excess spend or any of the spend has gone. Just a PR statement

If Toto heard by way of a third party, no different from Ferrari finding out about Coughlin spy gate saga.
The dynamics of this are such that some want to label the crime as Toto hearing about a crime. :lol:

At this point it will be incumbent on the FIA to produce evidence or MBS can kiss goodbye to his presidency.
Susie Wolff's statement on misogyny and being intimidated might lead to escalatory legal woes and LMedia will not be sitting idly while that happens

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Wouter
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Re: Toto Wolff accused of leaking/receiving confidential information

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Wouter wrote: ↑
Lawrence Stroll and Domenicali are also friends. That's why he was invited on her wedding.

The photo's with other team principles are all work related NOT private!
.
mcdenife wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 17:05
Wouter wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 16:01
mcdenife wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 15:50
So are you saying, Stroll snr having a personal relationship with Domenicali is not a conflict of interest or that Any team principal with a personal relationship with Domenicali constitutes a conflict of interest?
.
No, that is not what I am saying. Where do you read that?
Lawrence Stroll having a personal relationship with Domenicali is also a conflict of interest.
Non of the other teampricipals are personel friends of Domenicali.
.
So from photos of Domenicali on Toto's boat and/or at Stroll's daughter's wedding, they are personal Friends (note I said personal relationship not personal Friends)? All the team principals, other F1 names, personalities socialize with each other outside of F1...including Toto and Horner. Because you come across a photo of Horner at Toto's son's wedding or birthday or other event (or LH on Max's plane even) does not make them friends let alone close friends, but it does mean they have a personal relationship outside of F1 and the same goes for other personalites within F1 and indeed in other spheres of life outside of F1. If you really tried I am sure you can find photos of any number of drivers at events organised by suppossedly bitter rivals/drivers/Team principals or other F1 personalities, it doesnt make them friends.
Putting all this to one side, how on earth would you know none of the team principal are 'personal friends' of Domenicali; They told you this? Or you just concluded; "if I have not seen any photo suggesting otherwise the must not have a relationship outside of F1 with Domenicali"?
.
I am not going to repeat myself. Let's just agree to disagree.
The Power of Dreams!

Luscion
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Re: Toto Wolff accused of leaking/receiving confidential information

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ValeVida46 wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 17:14
organic wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 15:11
Edit: some of this may be outdated as AMuS have made amendments to the original article

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... rmationen/

AMuS have now reported on this, and it seems it is actually more about the budget cap. They allege, through info confirmed to them by unnamed source, that Toto had confidential information about budget cap audits that he let slip. IMO that could be seen as something quite major as it seems perhaps he had knowledge of how other teams were spending within the cap!

A participant in the meeting in question confirmed to Auto Motor und Sport that such an incident had actually occurred. Accordingly, Wolff is said to have mentioned figures that could come from the audits for the budget cap investigations.
It said that Toto Wolff had let slip information in a meeting of the Formula 1 Commission that was actually subject to confidentiality and was not available through regular channels.
Normally, none of the teams are allowed to know exactly how the competition is doing business. That's why the auditors' findings are strictly confidential.
In the meeting there was allegedly a brief argument between Toto Wolff and Christian Horner. The Red Bull team boss is said to have asked his Mercedes colleague where the information mentioned came from. It is said that the discussion did not escalate greatly.
Might be possible Red Bull(Horner) complained that Toto had information that Red Bull breached the budget cap.
I doubt that, I still think it's MBS shenanigans.

This mess being brought up by the FIA just brings back the spectre of budget caps.
If Wolff does have information of Red Bull budgetry wrongdoing, it would be wrong.
Said it before and I'll say it again, this should be OPEN to ALL for scrutiny. Right now we can't even see where the excess spend or any of the spend has gone. Just a PR statement

If Toto heard by way of a third party, no different from Ferrari finding out about Coughlin spy gate saga.
The dynamics of this are such that some want to label the crime as Toto hearing about a crime. :lol:

At this point it will be incumbent on the FIA to produce evidence or MBS can kiss goodbye to his presidency.
Susie Wolff's statement on misogyny and being intimidated might lead to escalatory legal woes and LMedia will not be sitting idly while that happens
I'd be very surprised if the Wolff's dont sue BusinessF1 if this turns out to have no substance behind it, which with this AMuS report seems to be the case, especially considering the article stated it as fact that Toto has a history of leaking confidential info he shouldnt have known and the mess it has caused.

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organic
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Re: Toto Wolff accused of leaking/receiving confidential information

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ValeVida46 wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 17:14
organic wrote:
06 Dec 2023, 15:11
Edit: some of this may be outdated as AMuS have made amendments to the original article

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... rmationen/

AMuS have now reported on this, and it seems it is actually more about the budget cap. They allege, through info confirmed to them by unnamed source, that Toto had confidential information about budget cap audits that he let slip. IMO that could be seen as something quite major as it seems perhaps he had knowledge of how other teams were spending within the cap!

A participant in the meeting in question confirmed to Auto Motor und Sport that such an incident had actually occurred. Accordingly, Wolff is said to have mentioned figures that could come from the audits for the budget cap investigations.
It said that Toto Wolff had let slip information in a meeting of the Formula 1 Commission that was actually subject to confidentiality and was not available through regular channels.
Normally, none of the teams are allowed to know exactly how the competition is doing business. That's why the auditors' findings are strictly confidential.
In the meeting there was allegedly a brief argument between Toto Wolff and Christian Horner. The Red Bull team boss is said to have asked his Mercedes colleague where the information mentioned came from. It is said that the discussion did not escalate greatly.
Might be possible Red Bull(Horner) complained that Toto had information that Red Bull breached the budget cap.
I doubt that, I still think it's MBS shenanigans.

This mess being brought up by the FIA just brings back the spectre of budget caps.
If Wolff does have information of Red Bull budgetry wrongdoing, it would be wrong.
Said it before and I'll say it again, this should be OPEN to ALL for scrutiny. Right now we can't even see where the excess spend or any of the spend has gone. Just a PR statement

If Toto heard by way of a third party, no different from Ferrari finding out about Coughlin spy gate saga.
The dynamics of this are such that some want to label the crime as Toto hearing about a crime. :lol:

At this point it will be incumbent on the FIA to produce evidence or MBS can kiss goodbye to his presidency.
Susie Wolff's statement on misogyny and being intimidated might lead to escalatory legal woes and LMedia will not be sitting idly while that happens
By the way AMuS have since heavily edited the article I originally quoted. Revisiting the original link will show this.

I think someone made a call with a bit of pressure placed on them :shock: