Toto Wolff accused of leaking/receiving confidential information

[ThijsMuis]

...

I have a hard time seeing Toto get anywhere with this. He's just trying to flex his muscles here.

From my viewpoint, the FIA didn't do anything judicially wrong. They did their job as a governing body. They conducted an initial assessment/inquiry (calling it an investigation at that point is probably overstating it) with the FOM. FOM replied with their procedures for making sure confidential information isn't leaked. FIA said "This looks good to us" and ended it. None of that is wrong on a technical level. They can investigate if they want to. Had they decided not to investigate, they'd have people screaming foul for that as well.

This is all being used as a power play at this point - and I'm not sure it's the FIA who is to blame here. Seems more like the Wolffs are trying to capitalize on this now against the FIA, when the real culprit is a tabloid which I (shamelessly at the time) used as a source to start this very thread.

It's the FIA vs FOM.
Making this about any team or boss is not correct. FIA used the paper to make trouble and it made for them trouble.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... ent-probe/

[TFSA]

The post by A3-GP suggested Wolff was the person making remarks that got folks kids bullied at RB.

(...)

Gotcha. I see your point now. Since you only quoted me, i didn't relate it to the other post.

[TFSA]

It's the FIA vs FOM.
Making this about any team or boss is not correct. FIA used the paper to make trouble and it made for them trouble.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... ent-probe/

Please don't trust everything that Mark Hughes writes. From my experience, he's a master of speculating, and while it's true that FOM and the FIA are in each others faces and have been so for a while, that article you linked has an excessive amount of wild guesses being presented as facts. He wouldn't be able to substantiate even close to half of it.

Much of the drama behind this entire story has been media generated to begin with. Even if we ignore the incompetence of the original article from BusinessF1 that kicked off all of this, the media in general has been covering this very badly by misrepresenting facts and statements.

For example, a lot of people I've seen debating this, incorrectly believe that the FIA has said that they started this investigation because a team had complained, and because every team then put out a statement saying they hadn't complained, people now assume the FIA has been lying. In reality the FIA never said that. What they said was that they were "aware of media speculation". So again, bad media coverage and gullible people is a big part of this.

[AR3-GP]

It was before any details were released. When Horner spoke of the bullying it was the weekend after Zak had written his open letter and they put Zak and Horner in the same press conference. We knew there was a breach, but exactly what, how much and how were speculation.

I don't see your point.

From the article you yourself linked, Brown never named Red Bull. What he wrote in the letter to the FIA was that any breaching of the cost cap should be considered cheating.

I don't necessarily agree, but it's a perfectly reasonable opinion to have. I fail to see what the problem is with his letter. Christian Horner playing Red Bull as the victims at the press conference doesn't really move me in that regard. I don't see Brown doing anything wrong here.

Edit: I agree with your later post that the FIA maybe could (or should) have announced that nobody was considered accused of anything at this point. They really aren't great at PR.

The post by A3-GP suggested Wolff was the person making remarks that got folks kids bullied at RB.

The point made is that Wolff was not the sole person sending strong opinions in the direction of Red Bull to make Horner want to talk about the bullying etc. That was the result of a number of things, including the letter that Zak wrote, and the media and literally anyone who was pointing unpleasant fingers at RB, which was almost everyone apart from RB fans at that point. It's simply a rejection of the notion that Wolff alone, or even in any kind of majority was responsible for Horners push back and remarks about how this had impacted individuals in his team and their families.

The point isn't to compare how many times one team has made spurious allegations to another, it's only to point out the irony of how aghast Mercedes has been in the last 48 hours, because the topic of this thread is that team. It is ironic that is all. One would hope that this is learning moment for them. They don't seem to like people making up stories about them....Getting under one's skin and making public Hamilton's contact with RB may be questionable but they don't equate to suggesting a car a flexing plank, flexing wings, suspicious DRS, or teammate cars not being equal. All of these are examples of spurious claims made by Wolff/Hamilton/Russell in the last 2 years that did amount to reputational damages but they were hardly concerned with the fallout of their suggestive innuendo at the time.

[ThijsMuis]

It's the FIA vs FOM.
Making this about any team or boss is not correct. FIA used the paper to make trouble and it made for them trouble.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... ent-probe/

Please don't trust everything that Mark Hughes writes. From my experience, he's a master of speculating, and while it's true that FOM and the FIA are in each others faces and have been so for a while, that article you linked has an excessive amount of wild guesses being presented as facts. He wouldn't be able to substantiate even close to half of it.

Much of the drama behind this entire story has been media generated to begin with. Even if we ignore the incompetence of the original article from BusinessF1 that kicked off all of this, the media in general has been covering this very badly by misrepresenting facts and statements.

For example, a lot of people I've seen debating this, incorrectly believe that the FIA has said that they started this investigation because a team had complained, and because every team then put out a statement saying they hadn't complained, people now assume the FIA has been lying. In reality the FIA never said that. What they said was that they were "aware of media speculation". So again, bad media coverage and gullible people is a big part of this.

Other posters here have said the same things as Hughes and many other journalists. We know there's trouble with FiA against FOM.
Making investigations on media speculation should already make it clear to you what is going on.

[denyall]

All the Toto/Horner RB/Merc team/sporting politics is one thing. Going after someone's family and personal relationships is what's got people fired up.

It hasn't all been sunshine and roses outta the RB camp. Lots of walking back statements that were found to be racist or having racial undertones, especially in '21.

[ThijsMuis]

The point isn't to compare how many times one team has made spurious allegations to another, it's only to point out the irony of how aghast Mercedes has been in the last 48 hours, because the topic of this thread is that team. It is ironic that is all. One would hope that this is learning moment for them. They don't seem to like people making up stories about them....

Horner did exactly the same things.
He threatened lawyers on anyone saying anything about Red Bull breaking the cap.
Critical of Wolff because of lawyers makes no sense when any team does same thing.

[AR3-GP]

The point isn't to compare how many times one team has made spurious allegations to another, it's only to point out the irony of how aghast Mercedes has been in the last 48 hours, because the topic of this thread is that team. It is ironic that is all. One would hope that this is learning moment for them. They don't seem to like people making up stories about them....

Horner did exactly the same things.
He threatened lawyers on anyone saying anything about Red Bull breaking the cap.
Critical of Wolff because of lawyers makes no sense when any team does same thing.

I'm not interested in a back and forth nitpicking. If you get it, you get it. If you don't, that's okay too. It is only an opinion.

[dans79]

I think some people are upset that the Wolff's didn't do anything wrong.....

[ValeVida46]

I'm not interested in a back and forth nitpicking. If you get it, you get it. If you don't, that's okay too. It is only an opinion.

Of course it's opinions, but yet again more sniping of Toto and Mercedes.
Being hypercritical of Wolff/Mercedes in a clear case of FIA overreaching and being caught red handed lying, then also shared none for Horner threatening lawyers in a clear case of guilt.

I think some people are upset that the Wolff's did anything wrong.....

It's the thread to dump on Mercedes again
How people can focus on Toto and Mercedes going legal after what's transpired, is beggars belief.
Mods should have intervened when it became a dumpster

[dans79]

How people can focus on Toto and Mercedes going legal after what's transpired, is beggars belief.

If it was me, a defamation lawsuit would have already been filed!

[TFSA]

Of course it's opinions, but yet again more sniping of Toto and Mercedes.
Being hypercritical of Wolff/Mercedes in a clear case of FIA overreaching and being caught red handed lying, then also shared none for Horner threatening lawyers in a clear case of guilt.

The FIA neither overreached, nor have they lied at any point in this entire debacle.

I refer to my post a bit further up detailing why some people mistakingly believed the FIA lied, and that this was actually the result of bad media reporting:

For example, a lot of people I've seen debating this, incorrectly believe that the FIA has said that they started this investigation because a team had complained, and because every team then put out a statement saying they hadn't complained, people now assume the FIA has been lying. In reality the FIA never said that. What they said was that they were "aware of media speculation". So again, bad media coverage and gullible people is a big part of this.

The FIA did their job. They made an inquiry (not a full blown investigation) to FOM regarding their procedures for safeguarding information. Was satisfied with the answer they got. Closed the case.

And make no mistake here, the Wolff couple was indeed a victim of slander. But the FIA isn't the culprit here. Them trying to blow it up in the face of the FIA, is just them trying to capitalize on the situation. I think that's actually the unprofessional part here. If they must, they should go after BusinessF1 - not the FIA for doing exactly what they're supposed to do.

[dans79]

But the FIA isn't the culprit here. Them trying to blow it up in the face of the FIA, is just them trying to capitalize on the situation. I think that's actually the unprofessional part here. If they must, they should go after BusinessF1 - not the FIA for doing exactly what they're supposed to do.

Just because the organization did what it should, doesn't mean a member of the organization didn't initiate the fiasco!

cough cough MBS cough cough

[TFSA]

But the FIA isn't the culprit here. Them trying to blow it up in the face of the FIA, is just them trying to capitalize on the situation. I think that's actually the unprofessional part here. If they must, they should go after BusinessF1 - not the FIA for doing exactly what they're supposed to do.

Just because the organization did what it should, doesn't mean a member of the organization didn't initiate the fiasco!

cough cough MBS cough cough

What Fiasco? They did what they're supposed to do. If they didn't, many people would consider that negligent.

Since every media outlet and their dog was
running with this story, please give one good reason why the FIA shouldn't give this, at the very least, some attention. If they didn't, they'd be facing allegations of not doing their job properly.

Again, people are barking up the wrong tree here. Which brings me to...

How people can focus on Toto and Mercedes going legal after what's transpired, is beggars belief.

If it was me, a defamation lawsuit would have already been filed!

It would be for me as well. And I absolutely think they should. But against who, again?

Because it seems many people think Toto and Suzie have anything on the FIA here. In that case, I'll have to spoil the party, but they don't.

They absolutely have a case against BusinessF1 though. They've already lost 3 prior cases for slander, so losing number 4 sadly isn't anything new to them.

[mwillems]

I don't see your point.

From the article you yourself linked, Brown never named Red Bull. What he wrote in the letter to the FIA was that any breaching of the cost cap should be considered cheating.

I don't necessarily agree, but it's a perfectly reasonable opinion to have. I fail to see what the problem is with his letter. Christian Horner playing Red Bull as the victims at the press conference doesn't really move me in that regard. I don't see Brown doing anything wrong here.

Edit: I agree with your later post that the FIA maybe could (or should) have announced that nobody was considered accused of anything at this point. They really aren't great at PR.

The post by A3-GP suggested Wolff was the person making remarks that got folks kids bullied at RB.

The point made is that Wolff was not the sole person sending strong opinions in the direction of Red Bull to make Horner want to talk about the bullying etc. That was the result of a number of things, including the letter that Zak wrote, and the media and literally anyone who was pointing unpleasant fingers at RB, which was almost everyone apart from RB fans at that point. It's simply a rejection of the notion that Wolff alone, or even in any kind of majority was responsible for Horners push back and remarks about how this had impacted individuals in his team and their families.

The point isn't to compare how many times one team has made spurious allegations to another, it's only to point out the irony of how aghast Mercedes has been in the last 48 hours, because the topic of this thread is that team. It is ironic that is all. One would hope that this is learning moment for them. They don't seem to like people making up stories about them....Getting under one's skin and making public Hamilton's contact with RB may be questionable but they don't equate to suggesting a car a flexing plank, flexing wings, suspicious DRS, or teammate cars not being equal. All of these are examples of spurious claims made by Wolff/Hamilton/Russell in the last 2 years that did amount to reputational damages but they were hardly concerned with the fallout of their suggestive innuendo at the time.

Around the current situation, it's different because Susie Wolff was brought into the firing line and there was no need for that. She was put into a very public situation and essentially attacked in a baseless manner which resulted in a lot of media and social media speculation some of which was very unpleasant, because of her marriage to the Boss.

What I disagree with in terms of your post is relating this to the situation in which Horner said some families were being bullied due to Wolff's comments, because they weren't just Wolff's comments, everyone was incensed and speculation came from everywhere in the paddock, the media and social media. There were bigger voices in that than Wolff's. So I don't see any parallel between this and previous situations, this was a direct attack on what is an innocent party. It's like when politicians wives are attacked in the press simply because they are married to a politician that may have some unpopularity, it's despicable. I'm in no way surprised that anyone is aghast at that behaviour and I can't get my head around the idea that someone else might be.

In terms of the tit for tat between them, I'd have to go through a few years worth of comments to back up my feeling that they are as bad as each other, but that is also off topic in here and besides the point. Plus I can't be @rs3d