Mediocre? Along with Alonso they took Newey and Vettel to the brink a few times. You're not mediocre if you pushed that team to the limit.xReVo wrote: ↑10 Dec 2023, 22:12No, their infrastructure is ridiculous, have you seen the place where they design cars? It's really small, not to mention the simulator that remained in 2006. Pat Fry worked at McLaren during the Newey period, we saw all his shortcomings at Ferrari where he churned out mediocre cars in the face of crazy expenses. You never came close to a winning car, only in 2010 you were behind Redbull and McLaren, in 2012 a total collapse. Either you agree or you don't agree, Alpine's results prove me right and in fact he ended up in one of the worst teams in the championshipdiffuser wrote: ↑10 Dec 2023, 21:48They upgraded their wind tunnel before Rossi. They've spent alot of money upgrading their infrastructure. Think it's top 5.xReVo wrote: ↑10 Dec 2023, 15:18
They should have the chassis developed by Lotus as they did until 2021, they should buy new structures such as the wind tunnel and they should hire capable staff. What did they do instead? They started hiring incompetents like Sfaznauer, throwing out Budkowski (former McLaren aerodynamic leader and also in the FIA) and Pat Fry who always made mediocre cars like Alonso's Ferrari
Pat Fry left to Williams. His cars came close to winning at Ferrari and he did win with Mclaren. They should have hung to him. I do agree, they have anonymous working over there.
But what a limit, the truth is that Ferrari spent too much compared to the results obtained on the track. There were 4 years of mediocre cars except 2010 where Pat Fry wasn't leading the development. In 2012 Ferrari was behind Redbull McLaren and Lotus in terms of performance, in 2013 at the end of the regulation he managed to make a decent car and then demonstrate all his shortcomings in the f14t, one of the worst Ferrari. After that Ferrari decided to fire him. I don't care about Alpine at the moment, but they didn't lose anything, in fact they gained by removing Otmar and Pat Fry. They had to keep the previous management with Budkowski, Abiteboul and Prost but now that's how it went for them.diffuser wrote: ↑12 Dec 2023, 04:42Mediocre? Along with Alonso they took Newey and Vettel to the brink a few times. You're not mediocre if you pushed that team to the limit.xReVo wrote: ↑10 Dec 2023, 22:12No, their infrastructure is ridiculous, have you seen the place where they design cars? It's really small, not to mention the simulator that remained in 2006. Pat Fry worked at McLaren during the Newey period, we saw all his shortcomings at Ferrari where he churned out mediocre cars in the face of crazy expenses. You never came close to a winning car, only in 2010 you were behind Redbull and McLaren, in 2012 a total collapse. Either you agree or you don't agree, Alpine's results prove me right and in fact he ended up in one of the worst teams in the championshipdiffuser wrote: ↑10 Dec 2023, 21:48
They upgraded their wind tunnel before Rossi. They've spent alot of money upgrading their infrastructure. Think it's top 5.
Pat Fry left to Williams. His cars came close to winning at Ferrari and he did win with Mclaren. They should have hung to him. I do agree, they have anonymous working over there.
It is a poorly designed car, I said it already in 2022. They have a notable confusion in terms of development, I still remember how they changed the mouth of the sidepods in Baku 2022 with the square shape that no one adopted and then changed it now. You can see with the naked eye that it is a strange car, even the flat nose that has no one is a demonstration of how they try to differentiate themselves without success. Not to mention the push rod rear suspensions so archaic that the 2022 Alfa Romeo had them. And if you then add the engine gap with the rival teams which forced them to try extreme solutions such as cutting off the flap of the front wings, losing a lot of downforce, there is little you can do. We'll see in 2024organic wrote: ↑11 Dec 2023, 17:01Twitter thread which is a translation of a recent AMuS article that covers the reasons Alpine struggled in 2023. Downforce that only ever existed on paper - expecting to be able to run the car lower and harder than reality (W13-esque) and consequently holding back development packages that wouldn't bring any better than P6 in WCC anyway.
With all of these sackings, they surely will have doubled their development budget...KimiRai wrote: ↑13 Dec 2023, 04:37Davide Brivio to leave Alpine Racing after three years
The Alpine Formula 1 team has announced that the company has agreed to part ways with Davide Brivio at the end of 2023.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/davi ... /10557384/
The Alpine car has a bad rear end, and it still sucks in slow corners as it has been since many years. I don't know how Ocon managed to qualify P4 in Monaco with this car.xReVo wrote: ↑12 Dec 2023, 13:42It is a poorly designed car, I said it already in 2022. They have a notable confusion in terms of development, I still remember how they changed the mouth of the sidepods in Baku 2022 with the square shape that no one adopted and then changed it now. You can see with the naked eye that it is a strange car, even the flat nose that has no one is a demonstration of how they try to differentiate themselves without success. Not to mention the push rod rear suspensions so archaic that the 2022 Alfa Romeo had them. And if you then add the engine gap with the rival teams which forced them to try extreme solutions such as cutting off the flap of the front wings, losing a lot of downforce, there is little you can do. We'll see in 2024organic wrote: ↑11 Dec 2023, 17:01Twitter thread which is a translation of a recent AMuS article that covers the reasons Alpine struggled in 2023. Downforce that only ever existed on paper - expecting to be able to run the car lower and harder than reality (W13-esque) and consequently holding back development packages that wouldn't bring any better than P6 in WCC anyway.
I can't explain why, but I always had a gut feeling that the problem was Rossi.KimiRai wrote: ↑16 Dec 2023, 02:03"How Famin is aiming to reverse Alpine’s previous F1 failures"
It won't be easy but I wish him the best.
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/12/ ... -failures/
Lol it was pretty obvious imo. Dude is a raging narcissist that wanted to make the entire team about himBassVirolla wrote: ↑16 Dec 2023, 15:41I can't explain why, but I always had a gut feeling that the problem was Rossi.KimiRai wrote: ↑16 Dec 2023, 02:03"How Famin is aiming to reverse Alpine’s previous F1 failures"
It won't be easy but I wish him the best.
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/12/ ... -failures/
The interview that Peter Windsor has done recently with Szafnauer seems also to point in that direction.
https://youtu.be/RXCZYe-ORbA?si=nYmciVG-NwdNYWja
There's material (interviews or statements) that suggest such behaviour?organic wrote: ↑16 Dec 2023, 16:24Lol it was pretty obvious imo. Dude is a raging narcissist that wanted to make the entire team about himBassVirolla wrote: ↑16 Dec 2023, 15:41I can't explain why, but I always had a gut feeling that the problem was Rossi.KimiRai wrote: ↑16 Dec 2023, 02:03"How Famin is aiming to reverse Alpine’s previous F1 failures"
It won't be easy but I wish him the best.
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2023/12/ ... -failures/
The interview that Peter Windsor has done recently with Szafnauer seems also to point in that direction.
https://youtu.be/RXCZYe-ORbA?si=nYmciVG-NwdNYWja
You could see him taking credit for successes of the team but making it clear that it was someone else's fault when things went wrong. You can take a look at comments of his in old news to see that. Also I remember an interview with Lawrence Barretto around 2021 or so where he said something to the effect that he was "grateful that someone else understood how the game works" referring to the 2022 engine, and look how that went. Although I doubt it was all his fault only.BassVirolla wrote: ↑16 Dec 2023, 16:48There's material (interviews or statements) that suggest such behaviour?organic wrote: ↑16 Dec 2023, 16:24Lol it was pretty obvious imo. Dude is a raging narcissist that wanted to make the entire team about himBassVirolla wrote: ↑16 Dec 2023, 15:41
I can't explain why, but I always had a gut feeling that the problem was Rossi.
The interview that Peter Windsor has done recently with Szafnauer seems also to point in that direction.
https://youtu.be/RXCZYe-ORbA?si=nYmciVG-NwdNYWja
I'd be pleased to hear or read something that validate my feelings.
Edit: Getting rid of people like Szafnauer, Budkowski or Prost I think that speaks volumes per se, but I've never heard nor read nothing from Rossi's mouth.
